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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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West_Winger said:
“The West makes clear that if Putin goes and is replaced by a more moderate leader, then Russia will see the lifting of some sanctions and a restoration of normal diplomatic relations.”

That’s how I see this ending.
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A convenient declaration of martial law in Moscow will of course mean that the army will have to enter the city with a large number of troops and tanks. We shall see if Putin falls for it.

He's obviously a very worried man that's why he meets even his most senior generals sitting at the opposite end of a very long table.

At this stage Stalin would have shot a few generals to encourage the rest I can't think what's delaying Putin
 
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UpTheDuff said:
Yeh he has a strange understanding of what NATO is. He seems to think it is some sort of aggressive force trying to colonise countries. When it is just a treaty organisation countries want to join to protect themselves against invasion and attack. Unfortunately Ukraine didn’t join in time.
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TBF, I think he sees it through the same paranoid lens that the Russian government does.

But countries join NATO voluntarily. They didn’t join the USSR voluntarily, and whatever is being done to Ukraine now isn’t voluntary.

Whether allowing Estonia or other former Soviet SSRs was strategically smart (for countries like the US or UK) or likely to provoke this reaction is beside the point except to point out that those countries should have better prepared Ukraine to withstand their choices. It doesn’t excuse the Russian Empire trying to reconstitute itself at the expense of whomever it wants and by whatever means it wants.
 
Hugh Gains said:
NATO a defence alliance, that creeps east after saying it wouldn't, suffocating the Russia state along it's borders and bringing the weapons of a super power closer and closer to it's borders. You'd don't see how that's an issue to the Russians.
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In what way is it "suffocating"? It is absolutely no threat to Russia, although it has now been proven that Ukraine did need to be in NATO for it's own security. Hopefully other nearby countries are looking to join before it's too late.
 

Putin says invasion is going to plan - as he praises Russian soldiers as 'real heroes'​

Russia's Vladimir Putin is speaking live now, where he is praising his soldiers as "real heroes".
He announces a posthumous award to a fallen Russian soldier who he says "blew himself up" with a grenade to avoid being captured.
Mr Putin says Ukrainians and Russians are "one people" but that Ukrainians are "threatened and brainwashed".
He also continues his bizarre claims that Russia is fighting "neo-Nazis" and that civilians are being used as "human shields".
Contrary to what Ukraine has said, he says Russian forces have provided humanitarian corridors for civilians to flee and that Ukrainian "nationalists" are blocking them.
Meanwhile, he says the "special military operation" - as Russia has been calling it - is going to plan.
"All objectives that were set are being resolved or achieved successfully," he says.
This is despite Western intelligence suggesting the invasion is behind Russia's schedule.

You must be logged on to see external links

:confused:
 
tiptoad said:
How's it "suffocating" Russia?

NATO's sole purpose is to defend its members from attack. If Russia doesn't attack its members then NATO presents to problem whatsoever to it.
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Its got nowt to with NATO in my opinion, that just gives him an angle to spin. Its all about a land grab on the areas with the natural recourses as well as having the water turned back on for the region with all the crop exports. Its all money related in my opinion.
 
Hugh Gains said:
NATO a defence alliance, that creeps east after saying it wouldn't, suffocating the Russia state along it's borders and bringing the weapons of a super power closer and closer to it's borders. You'd don't see how that's an issue to the Russians.




Once the Ukraine was brought into the fold through the IMF and given bilateral loan guarantees from the US, the strings were attached. At that point, whoever is elected is beholden to the West. Joe Biden explained how US money can be used to influence internal Ukrainian decision making "either fire him or you're not getting the billion dollars."

In the Washington Post in 2015 by Fiona Hill, a NSC member and European and Russian affairs expert, she said this.

In Putin’s view, the United States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further.

We've been playing a game with Ukraine, and Putin made his move, right or wrong. But, we knew the crash course this was on and did nothing to stop it, and only instigated it further.
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It doesn’t “creep East”. Countries further East choose to join it, as they are allowed to.

I know why Russia don’t like it, but it doesn’t mean we have to care if they do or not. It’s their own paranoia and problem, no one elses.

NATO doesn’t pose a threat to Russia or any country, unless Russia or any country chooses to invade or attack a NATO member.

It is not ‘suffocating’ Russia. It makes literally no impact on Russia whether all it’s neighbours are in NATO or not - unless of course Russia wants to invade or attack any of them.

For example, if Finland joined NATO there is no difference in the threat to Russia. Finland or NATO are never going to attack Russia and it has no impact on trade or migration. All it means is if Russia ever invades or attacks Finland then NATO would come to Finland’s aid.

That’s the reality no matter what chip is on Putin’s shoulder or what’s in his head.

The Russian invasion of an independent sovereign Ukraine is unprovoked. Russia may not like what Ukraine were doing, but that’s life and Russia needs to understand that independent countries can do what they want.
 
Peav said:

Putin says invasion is going to plan - as he praises Russian soldiers as 'real heroes'​

Russia's Vladimir Putin is speaking live now, where he is praising his soldiers as "real heroes".
He announces a posthumous award to a fallen Russian soldier who he says "blew himself up" with a grenade to avoid being captured.
Mr Putin says Ukrainians and Russians are "one people" but that Ukrainians are "threatened and brainwashed".
He also continues his bizarre claims that Russia is fighting "neo-Nazis" and that civilians are being used as "human shields".
Contrary to what Ukraine has said, he says Russian forces have provided humanitarian corridors for civilians to flee and that Ukrainian "nationalists" are blocking them.
Meanwhile, he says the "special military operation" - as Russia has been calling it - is going to plan.
"All objectives that were set are being resolved or achieved successfully," he says.
This is despite Western intelligence suggesting the invasion is behind Russia's schedule.

You must be logged on to see external links

:confused:
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Sounds like another bloke many moons ago.
 
West_Winger said:
“The West makes clear that if Putin goes and is replaced by a more moderate leader, then Russia will see the lifting of some sanctions and a restoration of normal diplomatic relations.”

That’s how I see this ending.
Click to expand...
Its the sensible, and peaceful get out for everyone and a clear message to Russia. Get rid of that f***ing nutter, you know we can't do it, but you can. Sort your own house out, and we'll sort everything else out.
 
Hugh Gains said:
NATO a defence alliance, that creeps east after saying it wouldn't, suffocating the Russia state along it's borders and bringing the weapons of a super power closer and closer to it's borders. You'd don't see how that's an issue to the Russians.




Once the Ukraine was brought into the fold through the IMF and given bilateral loan guarantees from the US, the strings were attached. At that point, whoever is elected is beholden to the West. Joe Biden explained how US money can be used to influence internal Ukrainian decision making "either fire him or you're not getting the billion dollars."

In the Washington Post in 2015 by Fiona Hill, a NSC member and European and Russian affairs expert, she said this.

In Putin’s view, the United States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further.

We've been playing a game with Ukraine, and Putin made his move, right or wrong. But, we knew the crash course this was on and did nothing to stop it, and only instigated it further.
Click to expand...
So if Russia moves the weapons of a superpower into Belarus, that will be a justifiable issue for us? Applying the same standards.

So Russia don't like money being used for political reasons in Ukraine but is happy to use money for political gain in the UK and US?

There seems to be a great deal of double standards in your perspective.
 
scott934 said:
I dunno how many times it has to be pointed out to you that NATO is a union for defence only, but hopefully this time will be the one that does it.
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It’s like if my neighbour was worried about being broken into so planned to get a burglar alarm a guard dog that would live in their house. Maybe @Hugh Gains gains would advise I smash their house up before they do because they were clearly expanding into my property and threatening to burgle my house.
 
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