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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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West_Winger said:
Of course it has. They’ve virtually funded the Tory party in its entirety for the last 5-7 years. £2.3 million in donations, private parties for our current PM who makes a KGB officers son a lord, golden visas, investments in Russian banks, the lot.
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I've been surprised at just how much money & influence has washed through London, been fairly naive to it all even when you get beyond the football clubs and Kensington property buys... the fact that Washington have body swerved whitehall because of the cities financial ties to Moscow has been a real eye opener.
 

rudd said:
It makes no sense.

If Putin wants Ukraine why the hell are they bombing the crap out of it all? It's going to make it much much harder to get the public onside for one, and Russia don't have the money to repair it. If he takes it all it's only going to lead to repeated insurgents or a full blown revolution. He's messed up big time by underestimating the strength of Ukraine and their citizens.
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The better long term strategy would have been to convince Ukrainians that they’d benefit from closer ties with Russia.

But Putin hates the concept of liberal democracy.

Eventually most inward looking civilisations will collapse.
 
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beverly macca said:
At what point do we actually do something though. In reality we are stuck doing nothing until he takes the first shot. By then it’s too late.
Honestly it seems to me like we are saying we are terrified of him incase he kills us all but not bothered if he kills all of you lot (Ukrainians).
Before I get a time out from thread again I know no one is actually saying they are not bothered about lives being lost but the fact remains that there is, illegally, very close to home and by a walloper who as already threatened us directly.

Anyway that’s all I’m saying cos I got a hammering last neet for suggesting we take the war to them.

Il continue collecting knitwear for the kids.
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I agree with you. Not often that happens.
 
Concordsafc said:
Maybe just maybe they should look deeper into it to try and improve Europe and the countries needing help as a whole.
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I agree but then you’re left with the diplomatic mess of “well we had to clean up our act, why didn’t they?”

Turkey is very unlikely to ever be accepted into the EU for the same reasons around fair elections, human rights etc.
 
Ou
beverly macca said:
At what point do we actually do something though. In reality we are stuck doing nothing until he takes the first shot. By then it’s too late.
Honestly it seems to me like we are saying we are terrified of him incase he kills us all but not bothered if he kills all of you lot (Ukrainians).
Before I get a time out from thread again I know no one is actually saying they are not bothered about lives being lost but the fact remains that there is, illegally, very close to home and by a walloper who as already threatened us directly.

Anyway that’s all I’m saying cos I got a hammering last neet for suggesting we take the war to them.

Il continue collecting knitwear for the kids.
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Put nato on the ground as peace keeping in cities and towns in Ukraine then if putin attacks it’s on him.
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
Russia has already inflicted damage onto itself that will last until Putin stays in charge.

Even if Russia controls Ukraine it will swallow up vast resources, and if there’s any organised resistance the West/NATO will back it imho.

I’m really not sure of the Russian aims.

A quick knock out blow then claim east of the Dniepr?

How can they subdue the population who want closer ties to the EU/NATO?
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agree, Russia will in a week or so likely ‘ take the capital’ of Ukraine and have some tanks outside the presidential palace , but how it intends to finance and resource managing a population of 40m people across a huge land mass who don’t want them to be there is hard to see.

add in the punishing central bank sanctions and the economy will be on its knees within a couple of months.
 
Oh y
West_Winger said:
I agree but then you’re left with the diplomatic mess of “well we had to clean up our act, why didn’t they?”

Turkey is very unlikely to ever be accepted into the EU for the same reasons around fair elections, human rights etc
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Then maybe Ukraine Turkey etc could be come affiliates having a % of the benefits until seen fit to be full members.
 
archfiend said:
It is being suggested that the Russians are deliberately targeting civilians. Was it proved NATO deliberately target those buildings you referenced ?

I can see where you are coming from and that there will be collateral damage in all wars, but if see someone deliberately targeting a populated TV tower then it’s a crime surely.
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It's never been a question of whether or not doing it is a crime or not, it's whether than actually happening that's the issue.

But thank you for acknowledging the point I'm making, conflict is a tragedy and the deaths a tragic consequence of terrible events unfolding.
 
Concordsafc said:
Think from how this is going one side either has to break and change what they want in the negotiations

Or see if nato goes in nato must be the closest it has been,

People saying Ukraine should give up and just bow down maybe Russia should back off

Putin is putting his own people in poverty so if he continues his people suffer but he cares about Russia eh.

Can you look at recent votes to see what % are behind Ukraine’s leader.
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Russia has to be made back down. If we (Ukraine, NATO, the free world) ‘change what we want’ and let Russia take part of Ukraine then all that does is tell Putin and other tyrants that if you invade a country then you will be allowed to keep part of that country. Which is ridiculous position to take.

Ukraine was an independent sovereign nation before the unprovoked invasion. The only acceptable outcome is that it once again becomes an independent sovereign nation.

Can’t believe you would suggest otherwise.
 
Beery said:
I’m sorry, are you justifying the killing of civilians by an invading force against a non- aggressive sovereign state because “that’s just what happens”?
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I've had to stick him on ignore. I sincerely hope he's just trying to wind people up. If not then he's a horrible human being.
 
SYB_DC said:
I think people are missing that most of that list consists of valid military targets. Hospitals, schools, monuments, and businesses, no, but the rest yes.

It's difficult to judge the Russians' intent solely from pictures and videos of damage without larger context. But there's also an inferential difference that one can draw from the distinction between largely air-based campaigns like Libya, Yugoslavia and Iraq (at least the phase where most of the significant civilian damage happened) from ground attacks using fairly short-range weaponry.
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There's quite clearly a comparison in the sense that regardless of your intentions, the scope of the devastation can be broad.
 
UpTheDuff said:
Russia has to be made back down. If we (Ukraine, NATO, the free world) ‘change what we want’ and let Russia take part of Ukraine then all that does is tell Putin and other tyrants that if you invade a country then you will be allowed to keep part of that country. Which is ridiculous position to take.

Ukraine was an independent sovereign nation before the unprovoked invasion. The only acceptable outcome is that it once again becomes an independent sovereign nation.

Can’t believe you would suggest otherwise.
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I haven’t suggested other wise I’m saying what people have said, I’m all for getting f putin out and quickly and I’m pro nato moving in I know it isn’t that easy.
 
Hugh Gains said:
It's never been a question of whether or not doing it is a crime or not, it's whether than actually happening that's the issue.

But thank you for acknowledging the point I'm making, conflict is a tragedy and the deaths a tragic consequence of terrible events unfolding.
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Only one person to blame. Putin.

The blood of any civilians killed by the Russian invaders, or by any armed response to kick them out, is on Putin’s hands.
Concordsafc said:
I haven’t suggested other wise I’m saying what people have said, I’m all for getting f putin out and quickly and I’m pro nato moving in I know it isn’t that easy.
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Sorry for accusing you. Thanks for clarifying.
 
VW ends sales and production in Russia.

You must be logged on to see external links

Aston Martin, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Honda and Jaguar Land Rover are among the firms to halt sales in the region.
 
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OOOSH YEAH said:
They’ll take Kiev shortly and likely kill the president but I highly doubt they’ll be able to keep it.
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The conflict is nowhere near over and they are likely to gain more ground based on numbers of reinforcements. But they also only have a finite time before the will of the people overcomes the will of the government. Sanctions will hit people far harder than those at the top.
Nuclear war aside, they won’t win this war.
 
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