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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Hugh Gains said:
This is disingenuous.

I don't see systematic killing of civilians. How is it different to below? Was this sytematic?

Yugoslavia

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The NATO bombing killed about 1,000 members of the Yugoslav security forces in addition to between 489 and 528 civilians. It destroyed or damaged bridges, industrial plants, hospitals, schools, cultural monuments, private businesses as well as barracks and military installations.

IRAQ

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Baghdad
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to its civilian infrastructure, economy, and cultural inheritance from the fighting, as well as looting and arson. During the invasion, the Al-Yarmouk Hospital in south Baghdad saw a steady rate of about 100 new patients an hour.

Sources have civilian casualties from half a million to a million from 2003-2006.

LIBYA


This report documents civilian casualties in the air campaign by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Libya in 2011. NATO says it took extensive measures to minimize civilian harm, and those measures seem to have had a positive effect: the number of civilian deaths in Libya from NATO strikes was low given the extent of the bombing and duration of the campaign. Nevertheless, NATO air strikes killed at least 72 civilians, one-third of them children under age 18. To date, NATO has failed to acknowledge these casualties or to examine how and why they occurred.

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But since were keen to focus on Russias alleged discrepancies lets look at some of the less easier to support Ukrainians.

Azov killing civilians?

Twitter deleted link to telegram.
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No killing of civilians is welcome or justified. But, you are now the one being disingenuous.

NATO/UK/US bombing in Libya, Iraq and Yugoslavia was an intervention in response to tyrants, murderous regimes, and war criminals. NATO/UK/US were the good guys, going in to take out bad guys. The bad guys were also killing (gassing in Iraq or ethnically cleansing in Yugoslavia) civilians and were doing so before NATO/UK/US got involved.

In Ukraine, Russia is the bad guy and aggressor and targeting civilians in an unprovoked invasion. I am sure NATO/UK/US would also kill civilians if we went in to stop the invasion and force the Russians out - the sad price of war.

But we would be doing that in defence of the free world against tyranny, and as shown by pleas from within Ukraine NATO/UK/US forces would be welcome by the Ukrainian government and population.

Russia started this war with the unprovoked invasion. No civilians would die if they withdrew and went home.
 
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OOOSH YEAH said:
They’ll take Kiev shortly and likely kill the president but I highly doubt they’ll be able to keep it.
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Russia has already inflicted damage onto itself that will last until Putin stays in charge.

Even if Russia controls Ukraine it will swallow up vast resources, and if there’s any organised resistance the West/NATO will back it imho.

I’m really not sure of the Russian aims.

A quick knock out blow then claim east of the Dniepr?

How can they subdue the population who want closer ties to the EU/NATO?
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
Russia has already inflicted damage onto itself that will last until Putin stays in charge.

Even if Russia controls Ukraine it will swallow up vast resources, and if there’s any organised resistance the West/NATO will back it imho.

I’m really not sure of the Russian aims.

A quick knock out blow then claim east of the Dniepr?

How can they subdue the population who want closer ties to the EU/NATO?
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Day one after the Russians f*ck off, and Ukraine, Georgia, Sweden and Finland should all be formally invited to immediately join NATO.
 
OOOSH YEAH said:
If you hate the people on here so much why are you permanently camped out on here? All you ever do is slag off unspecified ‘people on here’, talk about brexiteers or Boris Johnson. You’ve added nowt to this thread. I’m sure you’re better than this.
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Tedious Attention seeker is tedious.

Put me on ignore if I bother you so much.
 
Think from how this is going one side either has to break and change what they want in the negotiations

Or see if nato goes in nato must be the closest it has been,

People saying Ukraine should give up and just bow down maybe Russia should back off

Putin is putting his own people in poverty so if he continues his people suffer but he cares about Russia eh.

Can you look at recent votes to see what % are behind Ukraine’s leader.
Sweeper said:
Day one after the Russians f*ck off, and Ukraine, Georgia, Sweden and Finland should all be formally invited to immediately join NATO
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Also the EU
 
look out piano said:
I felt upset reading about that, really kind they gave him some tea and a phone to ring his mam. If I were him I'd just say I was happy to join the Ukrainian people to defend against Putin tbh. I guess if not he's either going to jail or getting executed 😪
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I dont think you have to worry, he wont be getting executed.

Its easy to forget young Russians like him have no say and just have to follow orders, its a crying shame, all because of a crappy leadership thats trying to live in the glory days of the past.

Mind if the Ukraine's started to execute POW, I would support the complete and full stop of all aid from the UK, Ukraine has to take the moral high ground, I said it many times its a necessary evil having to kill the Russians in the defence of there lands, but its nothing to be happy about either.
 
Sweeper said:
Day one after the Russians f*ck off, and Ukraine, Georgia, Sweden and Finland should all be formally invited to immediately join NATO.
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Any sane person would wonder why ex-Soviet bloc countries are as keen to join a competitor.

My best analogy is a frumpy nagging housewife being bewildered about her husband shacking up with a slaggy younger woman.
 
Concordsafc said:
Think from how this is going one side either has to break and change what they want in the negotiations

Or see if nato goes in nato must be the closest it has been,

People saying Ukraine should give up and just bow down maybe Russia should back off

Putin is putting his own people in poverty so if he continues his people suffer but he cares about Russia eh.

Can you look at recent votes to see what % are behind Ukraine’s leader.

Also the EU
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Problem with them joining the EU is the minimum standards around human rights, anti corruption etc.

That’s why they’re likely to reject Ukraine now. I agree with them joining but I doubt they’d be granted it.
 
southstander said:
Macron: “Putin wants all of Ukraine and worse to come”.
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It makes no sense.

If Putin wants Ukraine why the hell are they bombing the crap out of it all? It's going to make it much much harder to get the public onside for one, and Russia don't have the money to repair it. If he takes it all it's only going to lead to repeated insurgents or a full blown revolution. He's messed up big time by underestimating the strength of Ukraine and their citizens.
 
West_Winger said:
Problem with them joining the EU is the minimum standards around human rights, anti corruption etc.

That’s why they’re likely to reject Ukraine now. I agree with them joining but I doubt they’d be granted it.
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Maybe just maybe they should look deeper into it to try and improve Europe and the countries needing help as a whole.
 
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