Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

[Hugh Gains]

so you would have been against us helping Poland in the 2nd world war then?

Not comparable.

What is comparable is the non-binding 1994 agreement and the guarantees given to Gorbachev of no NATO eastern expansion.

The latter of which is denied on the NATO website but stated in the 2017 declassified minutes of the meeting with Gorbachev in the 90s.

 

[Bulwell]

I agree completely but where do you draw the line.

The Russians are changing the narrative today and startling to sow the seed that the West’s economic sanctions are as close to a military target. If we withhold their sovereign funds In sure Putin will almost certainly claim that’s an act of war.

What if they start to argue the defensive weapons supplies to Ukraine are an act of war do we just stop?

Lavrov has been demanding today that the US should remove nukes from Europe

There is a real risk here that Putin, Medvedev and Lavrov think they can keep threatening the West into backtracking and relenting. Again it’s the Nixon madman strategy in full flow. So do we just keep accepting and climb down and to what stage? Because I get the feeling Russia will keep pushing for an escalation/bullying the West until we have to make a call on the non military actions we are taking

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Tell them to fuck off and if they want to completely overreact with a first strike then there's not much we can do about that. What can't be allowed to happen is both parties in a telephone box with a hand grenade each and one party making outlandish demands if they don't get what they want.

There are certain unspoken rules here:

1) NATO can't go to war with Russia over a non NATO country
2) Russia can't invade a NATO country

Arming the Ukrainians and economic sanctions don't threaten the Russian borders so in on limits.

 

[Hbk69]

Is this the same Trump who was constantly putting pressure on other NATO members to increase their defence spending (which Germany have just done) and warning against European reliance on Russian gas? The same Trump who reportedly told Putin he'd bomb Moscow if Russia attacked Ukraine?

There's a reason Putin held off attacking Ukraine until after Trump had left office, Trump was too unpredictable for Putin to risk this kind of move when he was POTUS. Putin probably took one look at how Biden handled the Afghanistan withdrawl and thought 'fuck it, now's the time'. Tbf to Biden I doubt he's in control of much but that's what happens when you elect somebody as obviously pathetic as him.

Excellent post but the usual snowflakes who are incapable of a discussion will hound you and attack a very intelligent argument.

 

[Keawyeds]

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Boris Johnson encounters actual journalist

I'm not sure whether I'd have wanted to hear his response to that or not, but my word did she give him both barrels.

 

[Jon Dough]

It's entirely plausible that Sky or whoever have had a team stationed in Holland Park waiting for the first civilian with no combat experience to turn up there to join the legion and then blag a story out of them tbh

Without a doubt

 

[chrismisterx]

Why didn't Putin attack Ukraine between 2016 - 2020 when he had his "puppet" in charge of the US? Would have made things easier for him surely?

Consolidation of annexing Crimea, he has done a strategy of chip chip chip away it seems.

I think you give Trump too much credit, mind Trump was mad as a box of frogs and no one would have known how he would have reacted, might even have supported Russia, no one will ever know.

 

[Deleted member 48353]

I felt it was refreshing he was brutally honest, I dont like Boris and I disagree and think we could do more, but cant hit him with a stick over that press conference.

Agreed, I think he’s been very honest the last 7 days, as said earlier it’s Patel that has made a prat of herself this week

Who would have thought after everything we’ve had with bozo the last few years that he’d be a steady head at this moment, think the lack of vodka in his suitcase must have sobered him up

 

[SYB_DC]

Is this the same Trump who was constantly putting pressure on other NATO members to increase their defence spending (which Germany have just done) and warning against European reliance on Russian gas? The same Trump who reportedly told Putin he'd bomb Moscow if Russia attacked Ukraine?

There's a reason Putin held off attacking Ukraine until after Trump had left office, Trump was too unpredictable for Putin to risk this kind of move when he was POTUS. Putin probably took one look at how Biden handled the Afghanistan withdrawl and thought 'fuck it, now's the time'. Tbf to Biden I doubt he's in control of much but that's what happens when you elect somebody as obviously pathetic as him.

This is a rare time you and I agree. Trump was the embodiment of deterrence through sheer unpredictability. He amply demonstrated that he was unhinged enough that he might well have pressed the button.

I don't have a lot of good to say about Trump, but I think people are correct that this wouldn't have happened with him in office. Mostly because he's nuts, but that's the way that particular cat gets skinned.

 

[MackemBob]

As if Putin gives a shit. I thought they were still supplying it because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t get paid and hence couldn’t finance the war. But if they already have the money, why are they even bothering?

So as not to raise the stakes with Germany. The eu is rightly already narked off. Germany has done a volte face over supply of armaments for the first time since Hitler wasn’t barbecued. Cutting off the gas is only going to increase the severity of the response.

 

[Deleted member 48353]

its all linked, thats the problem... its why you can't talk about this conflict without talking about the money in london or the number of bought tory mp's...

This invasion is not because of Tory donors or donner kebabs for that matter, give it a rest, there’s plenty of opportunities to give them government a good kicking, an invasion on the other side of Europe isn’t one of them

 

[Guitar Man]

Johnson has made the Uk look like a bunch of dickheads well done mate

No mate he's trying to save a full scale WW3 ,Few on here are clueless saying don't put up with it ,air attacks etc ,be the first ones crying when the air raid sirens go off and 20 mins to say your goodbyes.
Lets see what the Nato sanctions and Russias normal people starting to get pissed off bring ,already 2 Russian warships have refused to fight at a port near Ukraine and have turned around ,if this snowballs and troops get wind of it it could be a good sign ,maybe thats why they have called another meeting so soon ,clutching at straws i know but lets hope.

 

[FootballFan]

I've noticed there is still a lot of hostility on the thread, please lets respect all posters opinions.

We can disagree but not be disagreeable at the same time.

 

[leerik_canamole]

Because there are people out there who are actually going, no publicity, I know two, he didn't even know who he was joining, it's not difficult to just go and do it, do you honestly think he will go?

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There is nothing to suggest he isn't going, he didn't ask sky new to be there and interview him.

Maybe he doesn't have the means to get to Poland or know the process. To say it's just for Instagram like it's f***ing pathetic!

 

[bomber]

Why didn't Putin attack Ukraine between 2016 - 2020 when he had his "puppet" in charge of the US? Would have made things easier for him surely?

Would also made things harder for the Orange Sex God Imagine Orange man having to play the Woke man .Pre summer 2018 Russia wad also of kissed good bye to the World Cup.Putins planned this for years.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You did see that Trump was still pro Putin after the invasion started? He only changed his mind a few days in.

He said just the other night: "The Russian attack on the Ukraine is appalling. It's an outrage and an atrocity that should never have been allowed to occur." He also provided Ukraine with millions of dollars worth of military equipment during his Presidency (including the javelins that everybody is wanking on about now).

Wanted NATO membes to increase defence spending
Wanted Europeans to reduce reliance on Russian gas
Gave Ukraine millions of dollars worth of military equipment they're using right now against Russians
Told Putin he'd bomb Moscow if Ukraine was touched
Only President in the 21st century on whose watch Russia didn't invade another country

Weird for a pro-Putin, Russian asset. Not to mention the Russia-Trump shite was debunked long ago anyway.

 

[southstander]

Got at?

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[Keawyeds]

Is this the same Trump who was constantly putting pressure on other NATO members to increase their defence spending (which Germany have just done) and warning against European reliance on Russian gas? The same Trump who reportedly told Putin he'd bomb Moscow if Russia attacked Ukraine?

There's a reason Putin held off attacking Ukraine until after Trump had left office, Trump was too unpredictable for Putin to risk this kind of move when he was POTUS. Putin probably took one look at how Biden handled the Afghanistan withdrawl and thought 'fuck it, now's the time'. Tbf to Biden I doubt he's in control of much but that's what happens when you elect somebody as obviously pathetic as him.

As opposed to electing Trump who was a spectacular loose cannon, who has since praised some of Putin's actions?!
He said he'd bomb Moscow if they attacked Ukraine. He also said he'd make Mexico pay for a border wall and you should drink bleach to combat covid.

But, oh yes, blame Biden. There was never going to be a good time to pull out of Afghanistan and I'm certainly not going to defend the way it happened, but someone had to do it eventually.
The west needs to learn they cannot either nanny a country like that or rule it by force.

Trump warned them about reliance on Russian gas? I'm sure someone will have fed him that. I don't think he has it in him to be that astute.
You're certainly right when you say he was unpredictable, but as insane as he clearly is, he'd still have to follow the NATO and UN rules, regardless of what Putin did.
He could bluster and make all kinds of threats but without sufficient provocation, even he wouldn't be allowed to launch the big bombs

 

[chrismisterx]

Not comparable.

What is comparable is the non-binding 1994 agreement and the guarantees given to Gorbachev of no NATO eastern expansion.

The latter of which is denied on the NATO website but stated in the 2017 declassified minutes of the meeting with Gorbachev in the 90s.

it is, all we had with Poland was Chamberlin saying we will defend them, it was a non binding non legal offer of help, if German Attacked, Hitler didn't believe us but we stood up for what is right and the rest is history.
We did the same with Ukraine, to protect the borders if they give up Nukes, we should honour that.

If the USA ,and the UK both said before troops crossed the border, while they were massing, that we would act in the spirt of the mandate to protect the borders, do you think Russia would have still invaded, I dont think so.

Russia broke the mandate, Russia has History for breaking treaty's and mandates and a history of invading eastern European countries. No way at all to spin this as Russian defence as claimed.

 

[Keawyeds]

He said just the other night: "The Russian attack on the Ukraine is appalling. It's an outrage and an atrocity that should never have been allowed to occur." He also provided Ukraine with millions of dollars worth of military equipment during his Presidency (including the javelins that everybody is wanking on about now).

Wanted NATO membes to increase defence spending
Wanted Europeans to reduce reliance on Russian gas
Gave Ukraine millions of dollars worth of military equipment they're using right now against Russians
Told Putin he'd bomb Moscow if Ukraine was touched
Only President in the 21st century on whose watch Russia didn't invade another country

Weird for a pro-Putin, Russian asset. Not to mention the Russia-Trump shite was debunked long ago anyway.

In all 21 and a bit years of it and they've had all of 5 and even that included the last bit of Clinton's regime.
We've had more Prime Ministers in that time

 

[Jon Dough]

There is nothing to suggest he isn't going, he didn't ask sky new to be there and interview him.

Maybe he doesn't have the means to get to Poland or know the process. To say it's just for Instagram like it's f***ing pathetic!

Stop overreacting doesn't have the means? How much does his tats and watch cost? We have come to join the Ukrainian army or whatever they are called, C'mon