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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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ShieldsBlackCat2015 said:
Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving nation.

The world is looking on in total disgust at Russia. They are evil to the core.
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The Russian people aren't to blame for this, the blame lays with Putin and his acolytes. Putin wants to maintain his power by any cost, even if it means the death and suffering of his own people. Russia has a history of this, Stalin killed more of his own people than died in WW2. Putin idilzes him.
Putin is scaring his people with threats of Nazis, NATO. and North America.
 

A former senior army vet on newsnight predicting massive increase in Russia firepower over next 48 hours with potentially 1000s of Ukraine deaths will trigger nato intervention for a no fly zone in Ukraine. Worrying times
 
derum said:
The Russian people aren't to blame for this, the blame lays with Putin and his acolytes. Putin wants to maintain his power by any cost, even if it means the death and suffering of his own people. Russia has a history of this, Stalin killed more of his own people than died in WW2. Putin idilzes him.
Putin is scaring his people with threats of Nazis, NATO. and North America.
Click to expand...
Well he’s currently bombing and killing what he claims are his own people.
 
box2box said:
A former senior army vet on newsnight predicting massive increase in Russia firepower over next 48 hours with potentially 1000s of Ukraine deaths will trigger nato intervention for a no fly zone in Ukraine. Worrying times
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The man – he was a retired general and they are the worst – was a f***ing lunatic.

A no-fly zone is a non-starter. Not even Liz – now where did I put my knickers? – Truss would suggest that.
 
derum said:
The Russian people aren't to blame for this, the blame lays with Putin and his acolytes. Putin wants to maintain his power by any cost, even if it means the death and suffering of his own people. Russia has a history of this, Stalin killed more of his own people than died in WW2. Putin idilzes him.
Putin is scaring his people with threats of Nazis, NATO. and North America.
Click to expand...
This has always been the end result in a communist regime.
 
Mackem Mad said:
The man – he was a retired general and they are the worst – was a f***ing lunatic.

A no-fly zone is a non-starter. Not even Liz – now where did I put my knickers? – Truss would suggest that.
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So do you propose that we all sit with front row seats whilst Putin - frustrated by the lack of a quick victory - starts to raze Kiev to the ground ?

No we don't . NATO must lay down red lines . I Russia commences war crimes in Ukraine NATO will act . Just like we did against Serbs

I'd be surprised if we were not already moving aircraft into position in Romania , Poland , Slovakia

Putin needs a warning shot
 
Slim999 said:
So do you propose that we all sit with front row seats whilst Putin - frustrated by the lack of a quick victory - starts to raze Kiev to the ground ?

No we don't . NATO must lay down red lines . I Russia commences war crimes in Ukraine NATO will act . Just like we did against Serbs

I'd be surprised if we were not already moving aircraft into position in Romania , Poland , Slovakia

Putin needs a warning shot
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I agree with all of this (and the planes are already there, including 24 hour airborne coverage from American B-52s carrying a variety of things that go boom), but:

Slobodan Milosevic wouldn’t have been touched if he had nukes.
 
Slim999 said:
So do you propose that we all sit with front row seats whilst Putin - frustrated by the lack of a quick victory - starts to raze Kiev to the ground ?

No we don't . NATO must lay down red lines . I Russia commences war crimes in Ukraine NATO will act . Just like we did against Serbs

I'd be surprised if we were not already moving aircraft into position in Romania , Poland , Slovakia

Putin needs a warning shot
Click to expand...

There won't be a no fly zone as it just esculates everything. No way do Russia adhere to it and then if NATO enforce it then nuclear war really is on the cards.
 
SAFCOldie said:
This has always been the end result in a communist regime.
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In what way is Russia communist?
Slim999 said:
So do you propose that we all sit with front row seats whilst Putin - frustrated by the lack of a quick victory - starts to raze Kiev to the ground ?

No we don't . NATO must lay down red lines . I Russia commences war crimes in Ukraine NATO will act . Just like we did against Serbs

I'd be surprised if we were not already moving aircraft into position in Romania , Poland , Slovakia

Putin needs a warning shot
Click to expand...

Gaslighting doesn't become you.
 
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A lot of the mismatch in the balance of power between Russia and NATO/West is down to the persona that Putin has created for himself. He has emulated Nixon’s madman theory to a tee (More recently especially but he has always been unpredictable).

In reality the West has far more power then Russia in a hybrid war, and can damage more economically, socially and politically.

In a conventional war the West would beat Russia simply because it has far better technology and scale where it matters at sea and in the air (Which shouldn’t be surprising considering NATOs combined budget is in the magnitude of 50-60 times that of Russia)

Clearly nuclear weapons are a leveller and will be until one side has the ability to shoot them down and nullify them (The US claim they do but untested)

The difference is simply that it’s believed in the right scenario Putin would be willing to use the latter without protocols to stop him where as the West are viewed as largely the adults in the room with numerous checks and balances to stop that ever happening (At least as a first strike)

That’s essentially why the West Kowtows to Putin and are extremely careful in their actions. It’s got nothing to do with actual power but simply that Putin, like Nixon, has developed a persona that he might just be crazy enough to keep escalating if they don’t and that gives him a significant upper hand.
 
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SYB_DC said:
I agree with all of this (and the planes are already there, including 24 hour airborne coverage from American B-52s carrying a variety of things that go boom), but:

Slobodan Milosevic wouldn’t have been touched if he had nukes.
Click to expand...
But if we sit and watch Putin dismember Ukraine - who will be next ?

Finland , Sweden ?
Romania , Slovakia ?

Probably mischief & misinformation in former Yugoslavia ( already begun ) - so the stakes are already sky high...

We up the ante by threatening lethal surgical strikes to take our his heavy armour around the cities - may make him think twice . Of course hed fight back but we outnumber him on aircraft 2 to 1

Also the threat of action RE war crimes is 2-fold - he saw what happened to Milosevic and Karadic

He'd need to think a 3rd time about launching nukes - as that would be suicide on his country's part

I'm sure all these options are currently under discussion. .
they've started moving into position

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MonkeyLove said:
A lot of the mismatch in the balance of power between Russia and NATO/West is down to the persona that Putin has created for himself. He has emulated Nixon’s madman theory to a tee (More recently especially but he has always been unpredictable).

In reality the West has far more power then Russia in a hybrid war, and can damage more economically, socially and politically.

In a conventional war the West would beat Russia simply because it has far better technology and scale where it matters at sea and in the air (Which shouldn’t be surprising considering NATOs combined budget is in the magnitude of 50-60 times that of Russia)

Clearly nuclear weapons are a leveller and will be until one side has the ability to shoot them down and nullify them (The US claim they do but untested)

The difference is simply that it’s believed in the right scenario Putin would be willing to use the latter without protocols to stop him where as the West are viewed as largely the adults in the room with numerous checks and balances to stop that ever happening (At least as a first strike)

That’s essentially why the West Kowtows to Putin and are extremely careful in their actions. It’s got nothing to do with actual power but simply that Putin, like Nixon, has developed a persona that he might just be crazy enough to keep escalating if they don’t and that gives him a significant upper hand.
Click to expand...
Precisely

NATO outguns Russia 5 to 1 of aircraft
And 3 to 1 on sea power

I think it's time to chase the bear back into the woods
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Some of you will remember the Russian friend I have who described herself* as the “daughter of putin” from earlier in the thread. I bit the bullet earlier today and messaged her to say hi, and just check in. Not read it yet, but will be intrigued to see what she says now. Lives in Moscow still

*yes. But not the thread
 
Slim999 said:
But if we sit and watch Putin dismember Ukraine - who will be next ?

Finland , Sweden ?
Romania , Slovakia ?

Probably mischief & misinformation in former Yugoslavia ( already begun ) - so the stakes are already sky high...

We up the ante by threatening lethal surgical strikes to take our his heavy armour around the cities - may make him think twice . Of course hed fight back but we outnumber him on aircraft 2 to 1

Also the threat of action RE war crimes is 2-fold - he saw what happened to Milosevic and Karadic

He'd need to think a 3rd time about launching nukes - as that would be suicide on his country's part

I'm sure all these options are currently under discussion. .
they've started moving into position

You must be logged on to see external links

Precisely

NATO outguns Russia 5 to 1 of aircraft
And 3 to 1 on sea power

I think it's time to chase the bear back into the woods
You must be logged on to see external links
You must be logged on to see external links
Click to expand...

I honestly think he might try. If he genuinely believed the West would be too fearful of an escalation.

I’d be very surprised if there isn’t a targeted provocation during Ukraine to test the West’s response. Either shooting down a NATO military plane near the Ukrainian border or firing missiles into one of the bordering states. Something that the Russians will claim as an accident but which is really deliberate to give Putin insight
 
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