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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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I actually cried this morning, I was telling the bairn about my lovely old grandad George who used to have an above ground air raid shelter in his garden in Birtley. He was saying this was the start of WW3 and I did my best to deny that and pray that it all gets sorted soon.
 
I don't know the answer . NATO as a whole won't step in.. maybe the former eastern bloc Estonia, lativia etc all need to stand up as much as possible with Ukraine . Belarus aside Russia doesn't have many friends

China will sit as a neautral on this one no doubt
 
Hulkster said:
How to respond when one of the biggest, most powerful countries in the world is a gangster state run by thugs is an incredibly difficult question.

To take them on militarily means WW3 and enormous death, destruction, poverty and misery. We'd get all that win or lose, and it's far from clear that we'd win especially if China were to join them, and they would be far less reticent than us to use nukes.

Even meaningful economic action would come at a huge cost to us, given their massive importance when it comes not only to gas but to things like wheat and corn as well.
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We could see interest rates heading back towards 1980s levels.
 
woodlebert said:
They why are they invading Ukraine which has a border with NATO member Poland?
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I honestly don`t know. Maybe he thinks Ukraine joining is the final straw?? Like everybody else, I just wished it had never come to this but I think the West made a monumental mistake not bringing Russia into the fold when the Iron Curtain came down like they did with Germany at the end of WWII. If we had cooperated and worked together to rebuild Russia`s economy, we may not have ended with something more akin to a democracy, instead we gloated about the end of the Soviet empire and seemingly prodded them at every opportunity. It was a huge wasted opportunity and unfortunately we may be paying the consequences for it now.
 
Let them in to their little enclave, give them a bit of a false sense of security, get organised properly and sucker punch them time and again. Guerilla warfare ahead
 
look out piano said:
Really upsetting waking up to this this morning, I feel so sorry for the Ukrainian people FFS.
It could end up Russia and China v the rest of the world........that is a terrifying thought.
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Don't forget North Korea and Iran, and various states that now depend on China due to them.borrowing big sums of cash from the Chinese to improve their infrastructures.
 
Jgrainger said:
Which is a disgrace!
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I agree tbh, but its an incredibly delicate situation when you're dealing with a totally unhinged lunatic with access to high grade weapons.

The fact that I'm praying that Ukraine can just fight them on their own, and defend themselves to the best of their ability feels so so so wrong. Its awful man
 
Sunderlandellight said:
The whole thing. He clearly wants to decapitate Ukraine and install his own men.

And what next? I'm sure if he doesn't consider Ukraine a proper country, then Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are a possible side dish for him.

I realize these are NATO countries and he is less likely to invade them die to the bugger risks of confrontation with NATO.

But who knows what is going on in inside the big lump in his head right now.

If you want an example of an intelligent lunatic, look no further than Vladimir Putin.
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He needs taking out like, JFK style would do nicely on live TV
 
Rustie Trombone said:
Two leaders we've been appeasing for years

We're reaping what we have sewn
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It was already too late once Putin took over.

The opportunity to have friendly relations with Russia was at the end of the cold war.

We left them broken, poor and humiliated.

It's kind of like the difference, less extreme obviously, to how we treat Germany at the end of WW1 compared to the end of WW2.

The situation in Russia in the 90s meant it was somewhat inevitable that they would end up with some form of nationalist gangster regime, much like the situation in Germany at the end of WW1.

We should have done what we could to avoid that, much as we did with Germany after WW2.
 
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spitfire said:
Let them in to their little enclave, give them a bit of a false sense of security, get organised properly and sucker punch them time and again. Guerilla warfare ahead
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There is that you draw them into a never ending battle the cost to Russia will be immense which could buckle them
Hulkster said:
It was already too late once Putin tool over.

The opportunity to have friendly relations with Russia was at the end of the cold war.

We left them broken, poor and humiliated.

It's kind of like the difference, less extreme obviously, to how we treat Germany at the end of WW1 compared to the end of WW1.

The situation in Russia in the 90s meant it was somewhat inevitable that they would end up with some form of nationalist gangster regime, much like the situation in Germany at the end of WW1.

We should have done what we could to avoid that, much as we did with Germany after WW2.
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What we would do now for a Gorbachev
 
West_Winger said:
I suspect that although it’s hammering the Russian economy, him and his oligarch mates will have their money stashed elsewhere so they’ll be sheltered from it.
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I mentioned earlier in the thread that Russia and China have been moving further away from reliance of the Western economies. Russia has been divesting itself of foreign government securities, investing in gold and building large reserves for some time, and you can bet Chinese banks will be lining up to lend to the oligarchs when private Western banks are forced to cut ties.

The City might be a huge money laundering enterprise but it's not the only one.

I think we all know who'll really suffer in this, ordinary folks in both Ukraine and Russia. We'll have pay some of the price too, asked to bear part of the burden in the name of democracy and to protect the world from a madman.
 
Unrelated but me and the other half watched the Salisbury poisoning show a few months ago, with the lass from shameless in.

We were saying then, essentially Putin thinks he can just do what he wants, innocent people died as a result of this and it almost feels like its just been brushed under the carpet. It's an absolutely disgraceful situation.
 
Therokerroar said:
But Russia will not stop at Ukraine...we all know that deep down...it will be the smaller ex soviet countries next....Putin is an incredibly dangerous individual ....yes North Korea have nothing but they have a lunatic as a leader .....what's happening today is the very start of some terrifying knock on effects unless something is done .....yet we freeze bank accounts ...
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I know what your saying and don't disagree but if Russia continue attacking Ukraine (we don't know what's going to happen) then it would seriously weaken their army, add that to monetary actions and as a result a very weak economy. Your not going to be in the best position to attack NATO especially if support is non existent for them, I'm not sure China will want to fight Russia's war especially if Russian support from it's people is low at the same time.

If we go in now then it means we're also seriously weakened at the same time so it's a 50/50 fight and the likes of China will happily step in to wipe the West out when it's got an opportunity which would result in an absolute blood bath. Not to mention that it won't have the support of most EU countries as it is.
 
Epping said:
I don't know the answer . NATO as a whole won't step in.. maybe the former eastern bloc Estonia, lativia etc all need to stand up as much as possible with Ukraine . Belarus aside Russia doesn't have many friends

China will sit as a neautral on this one no doubt
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There may become a point when NATO will have to confront Putin. He wants the Czar empire recreated (Not just the Soviet Union) he has made that quite clear and that includes NATO.

If he is feeling emboldened enough and confident that the Nuclear threat means NATO won’t stop him then he may just go for it as he is in his 70’s and time isn’t on his side.

Do you just let him have it or confront as one day the decision may need to be made
 
Therokerroar said:
But Russia will not stop at Ukraine...we all know that deep down...it will be the smaller ex soviet countries next....Putin is an incredibly dangerous individual ....yes North Korea have nothing but they have a lunatic as a leader .....what's happening today is the very start of some terrifying knock on effects unless something is done .....yet we freeze bank accounts ...
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I agree with what you are saying above, but i dont think war is the answer, especially at this stage. war is horrific and should never be taken lightly. People's spouses, children, parents will be slaughtered and for what? some madman to claim some bit of earth.

I do think we should hit them with the most extreme sanctions we can right now. Freeze accounts for anyone supportive of Putin, ban them from Swift, do everything we can to devalue the the price of gold. Block all investments and monies heading into Russia.

If we can deescalate things without war, it must be tried first.

Unfortunately for the west freezing bank accounts for those supportive of putin probably means trump and Johnson's accounts
 
bahtat said:
if @Therokerroar has his way yes
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Sorry mate I don't believe in wars for oil financial reasons etc ,but when innocent people in neighbouring countries are being killed and bombed by crazed dictators I believe we have a right to stand tall with those innocents ....no matter how big the enemy is ..
 
Epping said:
There is that you draw them into a never ending battle the cost to Russia will be immense which could buckle them

What we would do now for a Gorbachev
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It's true Epps. If he stupidly decides to go the whole hog and go for the lot then it becomes harder and costlier for him. He won't be able to sustain an occupancy for ever.
 
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