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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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smoker said:
It was 'only Crimea' and, before that, 'only South Ossetia'. If you want to look for historical precedent, it was 'only the Sudetenland' but German troops quickly went on to Prague. You can't appease these people, the longer it goes on the more we will wonder why we didn't act sooner when it was a smaller problem.
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Sadly I think this is likely to be true and our best hope is stopping it now. If Ukraine fights back and causes large numbers of Russian casualties then the Russians themselves may stop Putin. I don’t think the younger generations have a rosy view of the Soviet era. I doubt younger generations of Eastern European countries view a Russian takeover as a good thing. I worked with Polish and Bulgarian doctors who spoke fluent Russian because they’d had to. It didn’t mean they liked or supported Russia. In fact they despised and detested Russia and were delighted to be free of it and this would be the generation now in their 60s so I doubt their children have been told stories of the good old days. They told jokes about Russians being drunks as did the Hungarians I knew. There was little respect for Russians among those who lived with them. I don’t think former Warsaw Pact countries generally will be clamouring to become part of mother Russia.
 

Dun Scathach said:
Firstly, NATO and it’s expansion in Europe has quite literally been the successor to the Warsaw Pact.

In the UK and US, the right wing media changed around 2014 to present NATO contributions to the public by a country as a % of GDP and begin a narrative of discord, feed domestic resentment and ultimately begin to undermine its existence (See Brexit also).

When you quantify it into cold hard cash though, Germany Contributes vastly more to NATO than we do and France largely the same as the UK.

Another hot take when you haven’t the faintest clue what you’re talking about.

I expect however we’ll hear more of this In the coming weeks from the prominent media hot takers too. Haw Haws.
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How did you glean all tgat from my post? I’m impressed
 
The similarities between the behaviour of Putin now and Hitler in the 30's is terrifying. The break up of the USSR is Putin's Treaty of Versailles - he never shuts up about it and an obsessed, angry dictator is the last thing the world needs right now

The West has appeased and dithered and he has made his move

This is a very dark day for Russia, the Ukraine, Europe and the whole world
 
Skellington said:
Nord Stream 2 is finished physically, but cannot open while this is going on.

USA has benefitted by the escalation in Ukraine over the last few months as they have sold tonnes of LNG to Europe.

Germany would like cheaper gas, hence is reluctant to follow the US lead over Ukraine.

I don’t know how the UK benefits from meekly following the US at all. If ourselves and the EU were to reach some sort of an agreement with Russia that led to cheaper energy prices in return for staying out of it then Id be all for it - seems we’re determined to continue to be poodles for the Americans though.
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Stay out of what? A sovereign European nation being invaded? Because you’re worried about your gas bill.
 
smoker said:
It was 'only Crimea' and, before that, 'only South Ossetia'. If you want to look for historical precedent, it was 'only the Sudetenland' but German troops quickly went on to Prague. You can't appease these people, the longer it goes on the more we will wonder why we didn't act sooner when it was a smaller problem.
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Sounds familiar doesn't it?

We never learn
 
coyneeee said:
The problem is Luhansk and Donetsk (and Crimea) voted heavily in favour of Yanukovych, the demographic of these regions have extremely high numbers of Russians living in Ukraine, they're obviously going to side with Russia. The country overall voted for NATO membership and closer ties with EU but these people didn't, and we're talking over 90%, these people will be happy with the current political situation.

Even if a legitimate referendum was held which was overseen by the Ukrainian Government rather than a one under duress by the rebels, they'd still probably vote to join Russia.

Point of no return now sadly.
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This is why I thought the Ukraine-Russia issue had a chance of being resolved. The Minsk II agreement would have allowed the regions to be part of Ukraine without having to cut their cultural ties to Russia. The OSCE would have overseen elections and would be seen as neutral. NATO expansion is another matter of course.

Donbass has most of the minerals and a lot of the chemicals that make up Ukraine exports, the country as a whole has been suffering from disruption to trade due to the internal conflict (although a few oligarchs have been getting richer from illegal trade) and hopes of recovery take a big knock without those resources.

I'm not convinced about the people being happy with this outcome, I think a lot would rather not be in the position of choosing one over the other as they have strong attachments to both.
 
Rustie Trombone said:
The similarities between the behaviour of Putin now and Hitler in the 30's is terrifying. The break up of the USSR is Putin's Treaty of Versailles - he never shuts up about it and an obsessed, angry dictator is the last thing the world needs right now

The West has appeased and dithered and he has made his move

This is a very dark day for Russia, the Ukraine, Europe and the whole world
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The biggest learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.
 
Wild Card said:
agreed, I don't particularly like fracking mind but would support a government fracking programme (not private) where the profits are ploughed into green tech in order to wean us off the tits of the the dictatorships, who hold most of the gas and oil.

We could sell the excess to the EU in order to give them a new market while they invest in green. The sooner the world doesn't need these oil/gas producing countries the better. it takes away there leverage over us.
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We will not be weaned off oil and gas any time soon, they are n to just used for fuel but pervade into large parts of life we take for granted.
 
Rustie Trombone said:
He's murdered his detractors

He's attacked the UK with chemical weapons

He's invaded sovereign lands

He's made himself supreme leader forever

And we've done sweet fuck all

Now he is truly emboldened and a real threat to world peace
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It’s textbook tyrany. How anyone can say he’s not our problem is beyond me. The longer he does this and gets away with it the stronger he gets.
 
cfg said:
We will not be weaned off oil and gas any time soon, they are n to just used for fuel but pervade into large parts of life we take for granted.
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Agreed, but everything has to start somewhere. There should be huge investment in insolating homes/office buildings, Tidal energy, Solar energy on homes, Wind, Biomass, heat pumps etc. We could bring it all forward if we wanted to we are not a poor country. There doesn't seem the political will to do it.

Just because it isn't a short term fix doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. We absolutely need to stop funding people like Russia and the middle east and oil and gas is all they have.
 
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