Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Are you really sure I'm talking bollocks?

I've been to the Ukraine, my godson is half Ukrainian and can't speak a word of it, but can speak Russian fluently. In a match between Ukraine and Russia he would support Ukraine.

I don't think you know the first thing about the place or the demographics.

Like I said that type of interference will have no effect over there.

Because they don’t have an indigenous population?

So what's your argument?

I’ve been to Ukraine too. I don’t speak the lingo. But the joy of google says you are wrong

 

[pillars of hercules]

I’ve been to Ukraine too. I don’t speak the lingo. But the joy of google says you are wrong

Wrong about what specifically?

 

[r@mside]

A legitimate and legal referendum should have taken place in Donbas when it was still possible to have been fair and free. Federalisation and decentralisation would have likely appeased the region. Up until a couple of years ago this would have probably still been an acceptable solution. This is a couple of years old now, but makes for interesting reading.

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Not related to any post, but this thread is flagging up on my browser as “not secure”. Anyone else having this issue? Only seems to be this thread.

It was never going to happen though. Decentralisation requires a new constitution, the people demanding it have been excluded so the draft legislation sat on a shelf until being abandoned altogether in August 2019.

Zelensky is politically too weak to redraw a constitution as the right wing nationalists now dominate the parliament, and public opinion having taken control of the media. Listen to him now compared to when he campaigned, it's like chalk and cheese.

 

[Gelan]

I worked in Somerset for a year and worked with an absolute ton of Welsh lads, who all spoke welsh to each other. I knew maybe a handful who would choose to speak English, that only understood a little welsh. I’m sure it’s a legal requirement for children to be taught Welsh in school. Can only see the language continuing its revival.

Yes it is taught in schools...more kids speak it now than ten years ago, but parents have no say in the curriculum. The difference in parental approval between the South and North is very marked, but that difference has always existed.

 

[Hair Flick]

Welsh will never be anything more than a novelty in the south. Its been a minority language there for many hundreds of years

I'm not saying that most people don't consider themselves to be ethnically Ukrainian. Read my post about my godson. I'm saying the choice of language and ethnic identity are 2 very different things (like in Wales). The Russian speakers in the Donbas region like the Crimea have always considered themselves Russian and like the Albanians in Kosavo deserve self determination. We supported that. What's the difference here?

My point about the language is that most people in the Ukraine can speak Russian fluently to the point that if they go to a supermarket they would speak Russian by choice. That's not saying they don't go home and speak Ukrainian to their family.

It’s Ukraine, not the Ukraine. Of course most people speak Russian as Russia threw millions of their people into all of the satellite states under Stalin to push the “White Russia” empire and populate them with native Russians. You now have areas in most of these places where families are third & fourth generation Russian who identify as Russian, speak Russian, eat Russian food, attended Russian speaking schools, marry other “Russians”.

 

[Scotty]

In fairness to Putin the West did promise Russia no eastward NATO expansion when they were negotiating over German re-unification and we've completely gone back on that promise, this has been confirmed by Germany's Foreign Ministry - essentially he doesn't want potential adversaries' missiles on his doorstep and frankly I don't blame him. To me this has echoes of Cuba:

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heres the actual treaty -

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i dont see any reference to NATO in it...

 

[Professor Yaffle]

What a load of shite, campaign for them to buy you in the thousands, give the new owners a standing ovation at the first game, become online soldiers and apologists for the entire Saudi state, get flags pledging allegiance to Allah at the ground.

If you are not complicit then what on earth are you? Indifferent at best but absolutely happy to sell your soul at worst. And then you'll boo a player for kicking his cats, morals only matter to you when it costs you nothing.

That might be true of some supporters, but it's not the majority and it's certainly not me. You're making assumptions there mind. I've not set foot in the stadium since they fired Chris Hughton as I decided there and then that I was done with it. I can't see me ever returning and certainly not under this ownership. That doesn't prevent me from wanting them to win every game. My love for the team will never die, no matter what the owners do in my name. Much like you disassociate yourself from the actions of the UK government.

 

[MonkeyLove]

heres the actual treaty -

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i dont see any reference to NATO in it...

It’s a terrible argument.

Russia also promised and signed up to keep the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

The US and UK agreed to defend the territorial integrity of Ukraine

Not surprisingly a lot has changed from decades old agreements and all sides have renaged on them including most of all Russia

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Belarus now threatening to allow not only nuclear but "super nuclear" weapons from Russia on its borders.

The trouble is when a madman raises the ante what does he expect in response?

 

[MonkeyLove]

You have to give it to Putin if he doesn’t invade after all this it’s been one of the most elaborate ruses.

All the little minor details, building field hospitals, hiding tank columns in trees, putting specific armour on their equipment, painting Z’s to aid military identification.

Huge amount of attention to detail to make it seem genuine if he has no intention of going in. He hasn’t just plonked 150k soldiers on the border he has gone to the trouble of every little detail to suggest he will attack. Deserves an Oscar if he doesn’t after all this.

 

[anitdontmajanow]

not sure why you would want to mess with a bloke who rides bears ftopless

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[Mercia Blackcat]

You have to give it to Putin if he doesn’t invade after all this it’s been one of the most elaborate ruses.

All the little minor details, building field hospitals, hiding tank columns in trees, putting specific armour on their equipment, painting Z’s to aid military identification.

Huge amount of attention to detail to make it seem genuine if he has no intention of going in. He hasn’t just plonked 150k soldiers on the border he has gone to the trouble of every little detail to suggest he will attack. Deserves an Oscar if he doesn’t after all this.

Plus the evacuation of 70,000 civilians from their home region.

 

[MonkeyLove]

Ramping up the false flags

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[APH]

I just can't see a full scale invasion happening. The time for that was surely weeks ago, he's given Ukraine ample time to prepare and the west time to arm them.

I still think it's a case of his bluff has been called. His opportunity to save face is to 'save' the seperatist areas from supposed Ukrainian attacks.

I can't see it going further than that. Fingers crossed anyway.

 

[MonkeyLove]

I just can't see a full scale invasion happening. The time for that was surely weeks ago, he's given Ukraine ample time to prepare and the west time to arm them.

I still think it's a case of his bluff has been called. His opportunity to save face is to 'save' the seperatist areas from supposed Ukrainian attacks.

I can't see it going further than that. Fingers crossed anyway.

He has had to move 150,000 troops into position. Some of which have come from the Russian Eastern Military district thousands of miles from Ukraine.

He has also had to sort out all sorts of other logistics including fuel, food, engineering and infrastructure equipment etc… needed for an invasion and possible protracted war.

You might be right that he won’t invade but it takes a hell of a long time to build up an invasion force strong enough to take on Europe’s largest army (Which Ukraine has) particularly when you have to transport most of it across one of the largest countries in the World. He only started at Christmas, and wouldn’t have been in a position to attack weeks ago..

 

[Charmless Man]

I just can't see a full scale invasion happening. The time for that was surely weeks ago, he's given Ukraine ample time to prepare and the west time to arm them.

I still think it's a case of his bluff has been called. His opportunity to save face is to 'save' the seperatist areas from supposed Ukrainian attacks.

I can't see it going further than that. Fingers crossed anyway.

Weeks ago he didn’t have operational field hospitals and facilities to repair armoured vehicles in place.

He does now.

 

[Yer da claims JSA]

You try too hard me old mucker.


Racist..

Did me suggesting the French eat garlic upset you? If it did, I sincerely apologize.

TBf this thread has had quite a lot of insight into the mindset of political leaders, a view in historic tensions that need to be assuaged, and an outlook for what a negotiation might look like.

Whereas your comments was about someone having garlic breath.

It wasn’t so much xenophobic as it was cringeworthy

 

[chrismisterx]

He has had to move 150,000 troops into position. Some of which have come from the Russian Eastern Military district thousands of miles from Ukraine.

He has also had to sort out all sorts of other logistics including fuel, food, engineering and infrastructure equipment etc… needed for an invasion and possible protracted war.

You might be right that he won’t invade but it takes a hell of a long time to build up an invasion force strong enough to take on Europe’s largest army (Which Ukraine has) particularly when you have to transport most of it across one of the largest countries in the World. He only started at Christmas, and wouldn’t have been in a position to attack weeks ago..

Indeed, its not like a computer game where you can just click and move units, the logistics is the problem, wars are won and lost on how well the logistics are in place.

Take the UK I am sure I read a report a little while ago stating we could only field our armed forces for a sort period of time as we just dont have the logistical support to do much more than a week in the field, I was sceptical about the report, but was very telling in afghan, that as soon as the USA and its logistical support was leaving, we had no choice but to leave.

Once Putin has all the pieces in place, which when you see the reports coming out, it seems he has, then we will know one way or another, my concern is more and more reasons for Russia to step in are getting said across the media, its like the pre war PR has started.

 

[Scotty]

I just can't see a full scale invasion happening. The time for that was surely weeks ago, he's given Ukraine ample time to prepare and the west time to arm them.

I still think it's a case of his bluff has been called. His opportunity to save face is to 'save' the seperatist areas from supposed Ukrainian attacks.

I can't see it going further than that. Fingers crossed anyway.

he could'nt start weeks ago for all the reasons quoted already and one more

the weather

the same rules apply now as they did in 1941/2/3

winter is bad for everyone, spring mud is worse

 

[Pete the Pirate]

Two things to note now:

1) The "Rebel states" are now officially requesting military assistance from Russia
2) Putin is by some "coincidence" now chairing an emergency session of his own national security council.

If today's events weren't clear enough they are sledgehammering Minsk as the first step.