• The first stage of the forum upgrades has now been completed but they remain in a degraded state and are still being worked on. Normal posting/reading should now be possible.
    Please read this thread for more details.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.

Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Suomifinland said:
....

Not saying I agree with his moves. But at the end of the day, a recent incident was involving UK navi in Black Sea not too far from Crimea. Was them being there any more legit than Russians off Ireland?

All a right mess.
Click to expand...
Well the UK ship was a solitary vessel that did not enter the actual territorial waters of Crimea which is heavily defended by Russian forces and there was a serious response. That is hugely different to a fleet of Russian warships conducting military drills off the Irish coast, Ireland being the least military defended member of the EU.

Compared to the Crimea incident the Russian fleet regularly sails through the English Channel.
 
Last edited:
Mercia Blackcat said:
Well the UK ship was a solitary vessel that did not enter the actual territorial waters of Crimea which is heavily defended by Russian forces and there was a serious response. That is hugely different to a fleet of Russian warships conducting military drills off the Irish coast, Ireland being the least military defended member of the EU.

Compared to the Crimea incident the Russian fleet regularly sails through the English Channel.
Click to expand...

The Russian fleet were in international waters off the coast of Ireland. The Russians were not threatening us, just our fish. Worth nothing that the British Airport were monitoring the Russians and were in Irish airspace. They were also dropping stuff into the ocean to monitor Russian submarine activity which was doing as much damage to Irish fish stocks as the proposed Russian activity in Irish fishing grounds.

edit: Ireland is a neutral country and NATO, UK etc. need to request permission to enter Irish terrorial air and water. I don't think that is always (even ever!) the case.
 
Last edited:
englishman abroad said:
Listened to this pod cast on the work to work this morning
This women Judy Davis explains what Putins intentions better that anyone I've listened to
If you want to understand what's going on I suggest you listen
You must be logged on to see external links
Click to expand...
Complaining to a US Republican that a foreign power is pandering to conservative Christian Orthodoxy and it's evidence that Putin stands for the opposite of Western values. Has she been to America?
 
r@mside said:
Complaining to a US Republican that a foreign power is pandering to conservative Christian Orthodoxy and it's evidence that Putin stands for the opposite of Western values. Has she been to America?
Click to expand...
If you've listened she said lived in the US for 22 years
The point that dailed me back from slaughtering Liz Truss is Russian State Media are masters at manipulating, lying & deflection, and we shouldn't believe a thing they say. They are simply a miuth piece for Putin, the man who murders or incarcerates his political or cultural opponents
 
mickb2112 said:
That doesn`t seem to be what Russia thinks. A neutral zone between the two regions could de-escalate a potentially dangerous situation. We can offer NATO protection in the event of an attack but refrain from stationing troops and missiles there to show that we are not being hostile.

Correct
Click to expand...
and this is the problem - Russia thinks they need the buffer zone because of past invasions from the west

Ukraine thinks that they want under the umbrella because they've already lost the Crimea, and effectively have a separatist state inside their own borders

The Baltics are already under the umbrella because the previous time they were independent the Soviets rolled over them

and where would this neutral zone be?? - agreeing a neutral zone is effectively giving into Russian demands and denying Ukraine self-determination - where would it end, what happens if Russia decides that Kaliningrad needs a buffer zone, afterall its surrounded by NATO members - do we throw Poland or Lithuania under the bus??
 
thehighground said:
The Russian fleet were in international waters off the coast of Ireland. The Russians were not threatening us, just our fish. Worth nothing that the British Airport were monitoring the Russians and were in Irish airspace. They were also dropping stuff into the ocean to monitor Russian submarine activity which was doing as much damage to Irish fish stocks as the proposed Russian activity in Irish fishing grounds.

edit: Ireland is a neutral country and NATO, UK etc. need to request permission to enter Irish terrorial air and water. I don't think that is always (even ever!) the case.
Click to expand...
Maybe not threatening Ireland itself, but Russia being off the Irish coast would be a big issue for NATO. Do you believe Russia were carrying out routine drills?

A couple of issues spring to mind;
a) I wonder whether any important transatlantic sea cables run through the area
b) Russia could be planting their own monitoring devices to monitor sub activity
 
thehighground said:
The Russian fleet were in international waters off the coast of Ireland. The Russians were not threatening us, just our fish. Worth nothing that the British Airport were monitoring the Russians and were in Irish airspace. They were also dropping stuff into the ocean to monitor Russian submarine activity which was doing as much damage to Irish fish stocks as the proposed Russian activity in Irish fishing grounds.

edit: Ireland is a neutral country and NATO, UK etc. need to request permission to enter Irish terrorial air and water. I don't think that is always (even ever!) the case.
Click to expand...
Have you got a link to the Russians making changes to their plans to keep the Irish happy? The only article I can I see has an Irish minister being deeply concerned by them and that Irish fishermen plan to disrupt the exercise.

Subs using sonar would be doing plenty of damage to the whales in the area, not to mention the impact the live firing exercise would have, they don't just burst into rainbows.

Again, any proof that UK forces entered Irish airspace without permission?

Edit, found one about the concessions.
 
Last edited:
thehighground said:
The Russian fleet were in international waters off the coast of Ireland. The Russians were not threatening us, just our fish. Worth nothing that the British Airport were monitoring the Russians and were in Irish airspace. They were also dropping stuff into the ocean to monitor Russian submarine activity which was doing as much damage to Irish fish stocks as the proposed Russian activity in Irish fishing grounds.

edit: Ireland is a neutral country and NATO, UK etc. need to request permission to enter Irish terrorial air and water. I don't think that is always (even ever!) the case.
Click to expand...
Dropping detectors into the ocean to track Russian subs has been going on for decades and is routine. When a sub leaves the norther Russian port of Murmansk it must do so on the surface and its departure in picked up by USA satellite. Once in open sea it has two choices to either slip under the ice cap and enter the Pacific or come down into the Atlantic between Iceland the the UK. The Norwegian air force drops sensors every mile of the route into the water all the way until the UK air force takes over. This tracking is continuous and once the submarine reaches the Atlantic the waiting American wolf packs take over the tracking and there have been some notorious close counter collisions over the decades. Considering the nuclear fire power of the Russian subs it is essential for NATO to know the location of every single one of them.

The Yanks are not going to tolerate nuclear armed Russian subs just sitting off their Eastern Atlantic seaboard whether they are in international waters or not and the Russians know exactly what the game of cat and mouse involves. It's neither acceptable for them to be sitting off the coast of the British Isles whether they are in international waters or not. The chances are if they did not withdraw then it is likely one of their subs would have been rammed. It has happened before. There would have been NATO subs swarming around them.
 
Last edited:
englishman abroad said:
If you've listened she said lived in the US for 22 years
The point that dailed me back from slaughtering Liz Truss is Russian State Media are masters at manipulating, lying & deflection, and we shouldn't believe a thing they say. They are simply a miuth piece for Putin, the man who murders or incarcerates his political or cultural opponents
Click to expand...
I thought it was obvious I was being facetious but you must have missed the irony of what's a routine political position in the US, especially among Republicans, being construed as sinister when it happens in Russia.

We can see from our own media coverage how unprepared Truss was, we didn't need manipulative Russians to make the point. I wouldn't argue they'll make the most of it, it's pretty common political behaviour. You might remember the Brexit negotiations photo shoot where Davis was sat surrounded by EU reps with wads of paperwork to make it look like they were more prepared than us. We make relentless uninformed, fake and misrepresentative allegations against Russia ourselves, why should we expect them to be any different?

I don't like to defend Putin because he's the antithesis of a leader I would want for this country, but he's no different or any more evil than many of our close allies and I think that needs to be kept in mind when considering geopolitics. When it comes to lying, he has plenty of competition here and in the US, and it gets lapped up by the public thanks to stories like those Julia Davis is spinning.
 
southstander said:
British diplomacy going well.

You must be logged on to see media items

Bit of a crass post given the potential for mass loss of human life.
Click to expand...
When you mobilise around two thirds of an army the size of Russia's then that usually results in one thing despite all the bullshit of diplomatic rhetoric.

There could 50,000 lives lost in a push on Kiev. The Chinese have an old saying that negotiating with Russia is like negotiating with a bear.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
When you mobilise around two thirds of an army the size of Russia's then that usually results in one thing despite all the bullshit of diplomatic rhetoric.

There could 50,000 lives lost in a push on Kiev. The Chinese have an old saying that negotiating with Russia is like negotiating with a bear.
Click to expand...
Everyone’s assuming the Ukrainians will just roll over. I bet the yanks haven’t half been kitting them out the last few months.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top