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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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no, they've been invaded by Germany twice in the last 100 years - and on both of those occasions Russia was on our side
Rumanian`s Hungarians and Italians were in those invading forces in WWII. Russia wasn`t on our side at first in WWII. When they were invaded by the Germans they were still under the Molotov/Ribbentrop non aggression pact and had actually invaded eastern Poland when the Germans first invaded western Poland. Russia only came onto outside AFTER Operation Barbarossa started in 1941.
 

Truss was never going to succeed in Russia when it has deployed half of its armed forces on the border with Ukraine and in Belarus. Obviously ok for the Russians to move their forces into a country that borders NATO but they don't like us doing the same. I'm not supporter of the Tories or Truss but all she could achieve in Russia was to let them know for sure where we stand. That we have the right to defend our Allies who are part of a military alliance, that we respect the right for sovereign states to decide on their own future, and that we will enforce sanctions.

Putin has even rattled his nuclear arsenal. He is an opportunist and saw the opportunity to make a move when the Americans pulled out of Afghanistan and who are distracted by events in Taiwan and the South China Sea. It's ok for Russians to hold naval drills off the coast of Ireland and combined naval operations with China off the coast of Japan. He can not be trusted.
She was there to promote herself, even to the point of pushing her cloned Maggie Thatcher image. She can copy the look but is nowhere near as accomplished a politician let alone diplomat.

Ben Wallace will be meeting his Russian counterpart soon and that's when posturing for the home audience can be set aside for meaningful discussions.

Not sure what you're referring to with the rest of the first paragraph because it doesn't address the issues, treaties involved, relevant international relationships or timeline of the escalation.
 
Truss was never going to succeed in Russia when it has deployed half of its armed forces on the border with Ukraine and in Belarus. Obviously ok for the Russians to move their forces into a country that borders NATO but they don't like us doing the same. I'm not supporter of the Tories or Truss but all she could achieve in Russia was to let them know for sure where we stand. That we have the right to defend our Allies who are part of a military alliance, that we respect the right for sovereign states to decide on their own future, and that we will enforce sanctions.

Putin has even rattled his nuclear arsenal. He is an opportunist and saw the opportunity to make a move when the Americans pulled out of Afghanistan and who are distracted by events in Taiwan and the South China Sea. It's ok for Russians to hold naval drills off the coast of Ireland and combined naval operations with China off the coast of Japan. He can not be trusted.

Disagree here on parts of this. Russia naturally borders countries in NATO. Estonia for example joined NATO, therefore bringing Nato troops to the Russian border. Russia in that instance moved nothing.
They have moved into Belarus but no doubt Putin would counter by saying that was fairly small fry vs Nato now being Poland, Baltics etc.

Not saying I agree with his moves. But at the end of the day, a recent incident was involving UK navi in Black Sea not too far from Crimea. Was them being there any more legit than Russians off Ireland?

All a right mess.
 
Maybe the solution would be for NATO to step back from the Baltic states and the Ukraine and reach an agreement that these are to be a independent buffer zones between the two regions. No NATO troops will located in these areas and no Russian forces/missiles etc to be sited within say 300 miles of the Russian border and no military exercises to take place within this zone. All sides to guarantee the neutrality and sovereignty of these countries. Reserve the right for military action if these conditions are breached.

Take the "threat" away from Russia`s borders and the heat may well be taken out of the situation. Blustering and threatening will achieve nothing.
 
Maybe the solution would be for NATO to step back from the Baltic states and the Ukraine and reach an agreement that these are to be a independent buffer zones between the two regions. No NATO troops will located in these areas and no Russian forces/missiles etc to be sited within say 300 miles of the Russian border and no military exercises to take place within this zone. All sides to guarantee the neutrality and sovereignty of these countries. Reserve the right for military action if these conditions are breached.

Take the "threat" away from Russia`s borders and the heat may well be taken out of the situation. Blustering and threatening will achieve nothing.
How long until we saw "russian separatists" in the buffer zone? Isn't alot of NATOs actions a result of Russia never keeping it's promises whenever agreements are made?
 
Rumanian`s Hungarians and Italians were in those invading forces in WWII. Russia wasn`t on our side at first in WWII. When they were invaded by the Germans they were still under the Molotov/Ribbentrop non aggression pact and had actually invaded eastern Poland when the Germans first invaded western Poland. Russia only came onto outside AFTER Operation Barbarossa started in 1941.
The Soviets were fighting a war with Finland, the British & French actually sent aid to the Finns
The Soviets murdered some 16,000 Polish army officers and blamed the Nazi's
All prior to Barbarossa
The Stalin also accused Churchill of lying to the Soviets on the eve of Barbarossa, saying it was just a bluff to drag them into the war. Even highly placed Soviet agents in the British Inteligence Organisations were ignored. Bletchley Park had been picking up coded messages weeks before, Stalin's own general were to scared to tell him the Axis powers where about to invade because they were worroed about been shot. The Nazi's had penetrated upto 50 miles into Russia before he accepted in was a full blown invasion
 
Maybe the solution would be for NATO to step back from the Baltic states and the Ukraine and reach an agreement that these are to be a independent buffer zones between the two regions. No NATO troops will located in these areas and no Russian forces/missiles etc to be sited within say 300 miles of the Russian border and no military exercises to take place within this zone. All sides to guarantee the neutrality and sovereignty of these countries. Reserve the right for military action if these conditions are breached.

Take the "threat" away from Russia`s borders and the heat may well be taken out of the situation. Blustering and threatening will achieve nothing.
the Baltic states want to be part of NATO - are we saying they should have no say in their own affairs

if they were buffer states what to stop a repeat of 1940 - this is what they fear, and this is what they think NATO membership protects them from

finally - theres no 'threat' to Russia's borders.
 
So Russia invades and Nato goes in. Nato pushes Russia back, what happens? We stop at the border and are there for years to come? What if Russia pushes Nato back and takes Ukraine (likely scenario)? What then?

And most importantly, why are we interfering. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't half the Ukraine want to remain Russian?

NATO will not get militarily involved Ukraine.
No one knows as there has been no democratic vote. We are intervening as it’s on our door step and why would we want Russian encroachment on Western Europe

We are NOT intervening.

Ukraine on our doorstep? Your geography is as bad ad Truss’s.

Where is your evidence of Russian “encroachment” on Western Europe?
This is so worrying, we’re just sitting around watching this happen.

There’s a report out that Putin needs a handful of moves and he will be ready. So any day now and we have no chance of stopping it

Better take the Queen’s shilling, then, lad. Ukraine needs your sort (like a hole in the head).
Have the West not encroached onto Russia`s borders?? Isn`t that why Putin is nervous. Let`s not forget Russia has been invaded by the West twice in the last hundred years and now NATO are nudging next to Russia. Can you imagine the reaction if Russia was in Mexico with troops and missiles in place? Maybe the diplomats should take a step back and stand in Russia's shoes and try to see why they are not happy instead of constantly prodding them and winding them up.

This.
 
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Nato won't get involved ON PURPOSE but with that amount of equipment & nerves a few miles from each other who knows. A quick look on the Web shows most scenarios for war as accident that quickly escalates tit for tat fast.

E.g. A USA spy plane shot down as it tracks too far past what is deemed acceptable & then USA retaliation against the shooter that might be a Russian ground unit. Then Russia targets the people who targeted its unit etc etc.

If there has been any encroachment it has been Russia. Yes there has been "expansion of Nato" into previous Warsaw Pact nations, but who in Europe has annexed a chunk of someone else's country since WW2 apart from Russia & Crimea? That was justified as liberating ethnic Russians who wanted their area to be "Russia" but that's what Hitler did to Austria.

(and was there this fuss over Crimea? No.)

Reason Baltics joined Nato is exactly that. Estonia for example is near 50% Russian heritage & they were hard on them after the USSR broke up. Jobs advertised in only Estonian for example in knowledge it would discriminate. A lot of hidden tension along that line & a risk of Russia moving the border.
 
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no, they've been invaded by Germany twice in the last 100 years - and on both of those occasions Russia was on our side

Another geography expert. Last time I looked Germany was west of Russia.

Hitler’s hordes included Romanians, Spaniards, Italians, Swedes, French, Croatians, Norwegians, Danes and Belgians...the scrapings of Europe in the murderous Waffen SS.
 
the Baltic states want to be part of NATO - are we saying they should have no say in their own affairs

if they were buffer states what to stop a repeat of 1940 - this is what they fear, and this is what they think NATO membership protects them from

finally - theres no 'threat' to Russia's borders.
That doesn`t seem to be what Russia thinks. A neutral zone between the two regions could de-escalate a potentially dangerous situation. We can offer NATO protection in the event of an attack but refrain from stationing troops and missiles there to show that we are not being hostile.
The Soviets were fighting a war with Finland, the British & French actually sent aid to the Finns
The Soviets murdered some 16,000 Polish army officers and blamed the Nazi's
All prior to Barbarossa
The Stalin also accused Churchill of lying to the Soviets on the eve of Barbarossa, saying it was just a bluff to drag them into the war. Even highly placed Soviet agents in the British Inteligence Organisations were ignored. Bletchley Park had been picking up coded messages weeks before, Stalin's own general were to scared to tell him the Axis powers where about to invade because they were worroed about been shot. The Nazi's had penetrated upto 50 miles into Russia before he accepted in was a full blown invasion
Correct
 
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It's ok for Russians to hold naval drills off the coast of Ireland and combined naval operations with China off the coast of Japan. He can not be trusted.
The Russians were asked to move their naval operations outside the Irish Economic Zone into international waters and they did. The Russian Ambassador to Ireland met the Castletownbear fishermen (in whose fishing grounds they were proposing to conduct their operations) and at their request (and Irish Diplomatic requests) they moved it. The Russian Ambassador also appeared before a Dail Committee.

The comments from the fishermen were that at least the Russians informed what they were going to do, unlike NATO who don't say what they are going to do in Ireland economic waters, killing fish stocks in the process.
 
Maybe the solution would be for NATO to step back from the Baltic states and the Ukraine and reach an agreement that these are to be a independent buffer zones between the two regions. No NATO troops will located in these areas and no Russian forces/missiles etc to be sited within say 300 miles of the Russian border and no military exercises to take place within this zone. All sides to guarantee the neutrality and sovereignty of these countries. Reserve the right for military action if these conditions are breached.

Take the "threat" away from Russia`s borders and the heat may well be taken out of the situation. Blustering and threatening will achieve nothing.
The US has said it won't allow NATO to step back, that's because it's stopped being a defensive alliance at the end of the Cold War and became an non-sovereign political and military pact. The refusal to consider post-Soviet era Russia into the organisation and it's continued expansion in Eastern Europe and involvement in the Stans has created the sense of insecurity along Russia's borders.

The problem in Ukraine can be sorted via the Minsk II agreement. Russia isn't party to any of the arrangements and it will settle the conflict in Donbass and Luhansk so there'll be no need to protect ethnic Russians, especially those with dual nationality, and dispel concern that an escalation of the civil war might spill into Russian territory.

There is definitely room for compromise, there's no way Ukraine will be fully accepted into NATO or the EU until it sorts out its own domestic problems and that looks a long way off when it is banning opposition political parties and imprisoning TV owners for their political views. But as we are seeing, the various national leaders are playing this for domestic approval and in Zelensky's case to hold on to his fragile grip on power, while at the same time struggling to come to terms with where they might fit in the changing global order.
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Russian exercise cutting off Ukraine Coast...
It doesn't show the location of the US Pacific fleet that was sailing there last week. Has it not reached yet?
 
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Listened to this pod cast on the work to work this morning
This women Judy Davis explains what Putins intentions better that anyone I've listened to
If you want to understand what's going on I suggest you listen
 
The US has said it won't allow NATO to step back, that's because it's stopped being a defensive alliance at the end of the Cold War and became an non-sovereign political and military pact. The refusal to consider post-Soviet era Russia into the organisation and it's continued expansion in Eastern Europe and involvement in the Stans has created the sense of insecurity along Russia's borders.

The problem in Ukraine can be sorted via the Minsk II agreement. Russia isn't party to any of the arrangements and it will settle the conflict in Donbass and Luhansk so there'll be no need to protect ethnic Russians, especially those with dual nationality, and dispel concern that an escalation of the civil war might spill into Russian territory.

There is definitely room for compromise, there's no way Ukraine will be fully accepted into NATO or the EU until it sorts out its own domestic problems and that looks a long way off when it is banning opposition political parties and imprisoning TV owners for their political views. But as we are seeing, the various national leaders are playing this for domestic approval and in Zelensky's case to hold on to his fragile grip on power, while at the same time struggling to come to terms with where they might fit in the changing global order.

It doesn't show the location of the US Pacific fleet that was sailing there last week. Has it not reached yet?
If the Russians are doing firing drills in those areas then it would be silly to be anywhere near.
Have the West not encroached onto Russia`s borders?? Isn`t that why Putin is nervous. Let`s not forget Russia has been invaded by the West twice in the last hundred years and now NATO are nudging next to Russia. Can you imagine the reaction if Russia was in Mexico with troops and missiles in place? Maybe the diplomats should take a step back and stand in Russia's shoes and try to see why they are not happy instead of constantly prodding them and winding them up.
Poor Russia just sat minding their own business and they keep being wound up. Both sides are at it.
 
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If the Russians are doing firing drills in those areas then it would be silly to be anywhere near.

Poor Russia just sat minding their own business and they keep being wound up. Both sides are at it.
Just trying to take a step back and consider matters from all sides, like any good foreign policy diplomat should.
 
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