Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

[r@mside]

I’d say we’ve been doing that for the last 70 years, increasingly so on a linear scale and it has lead to where we are now. I’m not convinced it works.

I agree, it's what we've been trying to do and got more aggressive after the fall of the Soviet Empire. But there's an obvious flaw in promoting Liberal Democracy through missiles and militant insurgency, it's not Liberal and it's not Democratic.

 

[Alcoholic_Author]

I agree, it's what we've been trying to do and got more aggressive after the fall of the Soviet Empire. But there's an obvious flaw in promoting Liberal Democracy through missiles and militant insurgency, it's not Liberal and it's not Democratic.

I’ve abandoned liberalism as a strategy, perhaps from a sort of utopian idealism it’s nice but as I’ve gotten older I value it less and less, the baggage and concessions it comes with make it undesirable to me. Additionally it has become a massive and all powerful empire that resists necessary change, at a certain point I just accepted that it cannot be changed and we need something new.

 

[Gelan]

Your commenting (I assume) though from being a resident of one of the richest countries in the world, whose wealth was built from a vast marauding empire. Brittania rules the waves remember.

It’s easy to sit from a position of a privilege and say invading countries gets you nowhere. You can’t just press pause on geopolitics because the UK still has its cosy little corner on the world stage.

Good guess, but completely wrong.

I'll ask someone else.

 

[r@mside]

I’ve abandoned liberalism as a strategy, perhaps from a sort of utopian idealism it’s nice but as I’ve gotten older I value it less and less, the baggage and concessions it comes with make it undesirable to me. Additionally it has become a massive and all powerful empire that resists necessary change, at a certain point I just accepted that it cannot be changed and we need something new.

Yes, I've picked this up from previous conversations with you. I'm still of the view that liberalism is the best strategy that humanity has come up with that allows for the betterment of civilisation as a whole while maintaining a decent degree of individuality, cultural continuity and personal freedom.

It suffers from the same problem as any other doctrine though and that's greed, abuse and manipulation from people in positions of power who consider themselves exceptions to the rules imposed on everyone else.

 

[Alcoholic_Author]

Yes, I've picked this up from previous conversations with you. I'm still of the view that liberalism is the best strategy that humanity has come up with that allows for the betterment of civilisation as a whole while maintaining a decent degree of individuality, cultural continuity and personal freedom.

It suffers from the same problem as any other doctrine though and that's greed, abuse and manipulation from people in positions of power who consider themselves exceptions to the rules imposed on everyone else.

I was in your position at one point, seeing the flaws but rejecting the alternatives, I think we’ve quite different values so it’s not a given you’ll follow suit like. The way I see liberalism is like a ball rolling down a hill, once you start the process and you start heading down the hill things are great, at a certain point you want the ball to stop, as if you’ve reached the right balance of tradition, freedom and good sensibilities, the problem is you cannot stop a ball mid way whilst rolling down a hill, it will continue gathering momentum until it is all the way to the bottom.

 

[r@mside]

I was in your position at one point, seeing the flaws but rejecting the alternatives, I think we’ve quite different values so it’s not a given you’ll follow suit like. The way I see liberalism is like a ball rolling down a hill, once you start the process and you start heading down the hill things are great, at a certain point you want the ball to stop, as if you’ve reached the right balance of tradition, freedom and good sensibilities, the problem is you cannot stop a ball mid way whilst rolling down a hill, it will continue gathering momentum until it is all the way to the bottom.

I can understand why other some other cultures struggle with liberalism but the problem I have with the alternatives is they are mostly regressive, although not necessarily so for other parts of the world. The utopian ideas I'm aware of, like anarcho-syndicalism and similar, are even more susceptible to being exploited by authoritarianism than liberal democracy and that's not for me.

 

[Alcoholic_Author]

I can understand why other some other cultures struggle with liberalism but the problem I have with the alternatives is they are mostly regressive, although not necessarily so for other parts of the world. The utopian ideas I'm aware of, like anarcho-syndicalism and similar, are even more susceptible to being exploited by authoritarianism than liberal democracy and that's not for me.

Two words here: regressive and authoritarianism.

Seeing ideologies as progressive or regressive is slanted in itself, the idea that the world is rightly moving in a certain direction and that one direction is innately good and the other bad. I am out of that loop and happy to be, the world is not on a track moving back and forth, but free moving in all directions, that’s how I prefer to see it. The world can move in any direction at any time if the people have a will to move it.

Authoritarianism vs liberalism is a real thing, but the current liberal empire is happy to wield power for its own benefit, the idea that the US and EU do not harness authority and use it to achieve its goals is, as you know, nonsense.

Someone is going to wield authority in one guise or another, so its better that the person or people who have it, align with how you wish to see the world made. That’s the best advice I can give.

 

[gards2]

Very interesting! This last page is nice reading indeed. I have a few things to share.

American Democracy is responsible for most of the worlds 'ills' going back hundreds of years. They are the Government, The Corporations past and present. In other words the Elite, and they own or are part of "everything" on this planet.

I live in China, a nation of mostly childish people and everything that goes with it. Coupled with an overpopulation 'asset' Regard for life is minimal.

Going back to America and it's influence on the world. I can remember my dad talking about "PC nonsense" in the 80s and how we should describe a cow not as a cow. But as a milk (insert long winded name) as that's more polite. This is just one example. Now we have all this "woke" nonsense. 007 will become 009 or some other current PC 'wank'

My question to you is. AA and Ramside. Having lived in China for a while now. Is their a difference in the level of brainwashing between the States and China? In your opinion.

 

[Holy Guacemole]

So pure greed or distraction?

There’s genuine concern about the number of neighbouring countries joining NATO since 1997. There really aren’t many countries bordering Russia who aren’t now in NATO and it will be something that irks Putin at least.

 

[Alcoholic_Author]

My question to you is. AA and Ramside. Having lived in China for a while now. Is their a difference in the level of brainwashing between the States and China? In your opinion.

I think the idea of neutrality is a basically a lie and likely always has been, powerful people almost always have an agenda, but in times of polarisation and strife this become more evident and is ramped up because the general populous keenly take part in it.

Is the level of brainwashing between the US and China different? Would you rather eat shit or drink piss? You’re getting brainwashed either way, but there’s way too much at stake for them to be honest with the rabble.

 

[Visiting owl]

Had my weekly Friday lunch with my Bulgarian neighbours and all to a man, and one woman and they are all of the opinion that it's all America's fault!!

 

[gards2]

I think the idea of neutrality is a basically a lie and likely always has been, powerful people almost always have an agenda, but in times of polarisation and strife this become more evident and is ramped up because the general populous keenly take part in it.

Is the level of brainwashing between the US and China different? Would you rather eat shit or drink piss? You’re getting brainwashed either way, but there’s way too much at stake for them to be honest with the rabble.

haha

And your thoughts on Jordan Peterson? I feel sorry for him. Doesn't give himself "a day off" from himself.

Had my weekly Friday lunch with my Bulgarian neighbours and all to a man, and one woman and they are all of the opinion that it's all America's fault!!

haha It is! Prior to that, our fault and..basically all of the invading nations historically. Can you still get decent property out there? I'm looking to invest before 2025. In the early 00s you could get land out there for 10k

 

[Alcoholic_Author]

haha

And your thoughts on Jordan Peterson? I feel sorry for him. Doesn't give himself "a day off" from himself.

He serves a purpose, but he‘s also a dead end, he lies by omission.

Perhaps I’m just expecting too much of him.

 

[Helmerroids]

Good guess, but completely wrong.

I'll ask someone else.

Fair enough, I don’t disagree with your sentiment btw, I’m just always aware of the priviliges of living in a first world country, most of whom are where they are by being fiercely nationalistic and aggressive in their foreign policy at some point in their history.

In the UK I still enjoy the spoils of our imperialist past, whilst 10% of the worlds population live on less than $2 a day.

 

[Visiting owl]

haha

And your thoughts on Jordan Peterson? I feel sorry for him. Doesn't give himself "a day off" from himself.

haha It is! Prior to that, our fault and..basically all of the invading nations historically. Can you still get decent property out there? I'm looking to invest before 2025. In the early 00s you could get land out there for 10k

You can still find a bargain but the days of 10 grand for some decent land have long gone.

The cheapest deals to be had are expats wanting to sell up to go home.

 

[Gelan]

Fair enough, I don’t disagree with your sentiment btw, I’m just always aware of the priviliges of living in a first world country, most of whom are where they are by being fiercely nationalistic and aggressive in their foreign policy at some point in their history.

In the UK I still enjoy the spoils of our imperialist past, whilst 10% of the worlds population live on less than $2 a day.

That's a balanced outlook, I like very much...very few know the true quality of life. I try to change things, but I'm beginning to think that most want to remain in a cesspit of personal greed.

I like me because I am brave enough to look back at a me I didn't like.

I wish you well

 

[gards2]

He serves a purpose, but he‘s also a dead end, he lies by omission.

Perhaps I’m just expecting too much of

You can still find a bargain but the days of 10 grand for some decent land have long gone.

The cheapest deals to be had are expats wanting to sell up to go home.

fair enough. that's what I thought. Waste of money in Asia, there are strict laws about foreign "devils" owning anything. Yet some rich greedy bastards buy up anything they can overseas, seriously. the hypocrisy over here. Like I said Children running the show

That's a balanced outlook, I like very much...very few know the true quality of life. I try to change things, but I'm beginning to think that most want to remain in a cesspit of personal greed.

I like me because I am brave enough to look back at a me I didn't like.

I wish you well

Did you really mean to say you like yourself? Or was that a typo?

Brave? Are you an American?

If this is a wind up you've done very well haha brilliant actually. ya gunt

 

[Gelan]

Did you really mean to say you like yourself? Or was that a typo?

You're not much good to others if you don't like yourself marra...60 years of getting it wrong, and 15 years of putting it right.

There is no such thing as best...we can always be better

ps. I like your style

 

[r@mside]

Two words here: regressive and authoritarianism.

Seeing ideologies as progressive or regressive is slanted in itself, the idea that the world is rightly moving in a certain direction and that one direction is innately good and the other bad. I am out of that loop and happy to be, the world is not on a track moving back and forth, but free moving in all directions, that’s how I prefer to see it. The world can move in any direction at any time if the people have a will to move it.

Authoritarianism vs liberalism is a real thing, but the current liberal empire is happy to wield power for its own benefit, the idea that the US and EU do not harness authority and use it to achieve its goals is, as you know, nonsense.

Someone is going to wield authority in one guise or another, so its better that the person or people who have it, align with how you wish to see the world made. That’s the best advice I can give.

By regressive, I was thinking in a general sense about ideologies like monarchy, stoicism, socialism, communism etc and how the values and ethics aren't equipped to cope with modern technology and scientific advancement which have concrete effects on our lives.

Re authoritarianism, I totally get your point and can't argue that authority, whether it's a simple as following the know-it-all down the pub or CEO of a major corporation shaping government policy, imposes itself on us at all times. I can live with most of it as long as it can be peacefully challenged and succeeded by people with new or different ideas. I was thinking more in terms of the authoritarian government that pulls the rug on democratic institutions and separation of power.

My question to you is. AA and Ramside. Having lived in China for a while now. Is their a difference in the level of brainwashing between the States and China? In your opinion.

Not hugely, imo we're propagandised via our cultures for the most part. Nearly everything we believe is based on stories we tell ourselves and it doesn't matter much if it emanates from the state, church or media consensus.

Misleading citizens is another thing. In places like China, the darker secrets of the state will take lifetimes to uncover, in many liberal democracies these can be found by digging in public records or maybe waiting a generation for the release of classified info. I don't know how much difference it makes, most people are consumed by their ordinary day to day existence and trying to do a bit better for themselves.

 

[Wrenthorpe Mackem]

UK should be wary of getting involved.