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Why are putting up with medoricty

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---Nemo--- said:
What's the point, I've provided the evidence, he's moved every single club he's managed upwards. You haven't shown me one single instance of a club he's taken backwards.
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You haven't provided any evidence, you've made statements, statements that I've countered with actual evidence... You're confusing saying stuff you believe to be true with numbers, statistics and valid reasoning. I remind you that the actual disagreement/debate is whether Lee Johnson is a Championship standard manager or a League One standard manager, not whether he has taken a club backwards... I've never said that he's taken a club backwards...
 
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What's with this "he's improved every team he's been at"

He was starting from a low base as the teams he joined were under performing and had just sacked their manager.

If he takes SAFC from 8th to 4th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, technically he's improved us while we're still stinking out league one...what a load of shite.
 
Binxy said:
What's with this "he's improved every team he's been at"

He was starting from a low base as the teams he joined were under performing and had just sacked their manager.

If he takes SAFC from 8th to 4th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, technically he's improved us while we're still stinking out league one...what a load of shite.
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@---Nemo---
 
redgauntlet said:
No plan ever works for long if the first team isn’t doing well. After watching for 64 years, I have seen it tome and again. The title of Alan Durban’s book says it all, “Give me Tomorrow Now.”
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The 'plan' is an irrelevant point outside of transfer windows and is being used as an excuse by some fans as an avoidance strategy.
The manager himself is feeling the heat, because of his five league defeats, three of them were battering's and you simply can't carry that many battering's and not expect a reaction.
Mr Clarko said:
You haven't provided any evidence, you've made statements, statements that I've countered with actual evidence... You're confusing saying stuff you believe to be true with numbers, statistics and valid reasoning. I remind you that the actual disagreement/debate is whether Lee Johnson is a Championship standard manager or a League One standard manager, not whether he has taken a club backwards... I've never said that he's taken a club backwards...
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At the moment most of Johnson's allies have adopted a logical fallacy and that's to argue any debate should be restricted to a comparison between Johnson and Parkinson. That's because, Jack Ross statistically and professionally is clearly the better manager and had far more chaos to deal with than Johnson ever had to sort out at the outset. If for a moment you accept he was the better man and still failed, then it undermines the blind faith and dissonance all over the shop people have for Johnson.

From my position; I don't think Johnson should be managing anything and whilst he could probably coach in the premiership, his character and personality are incompatible with the requirements of being a good leader and rather reminds me of John Carver and that is not a complement.
 
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Grumpy Old Man said:
Given City's league performance in the 20 years preceding that, it was a considerable improvement. For most of the the 25 years I've been living in the city, they've been a yo-yo club between the Championship and League 1. Johnson's time there is actually an outlier. City were not, are not, and probably never will be, promotion material. They are far from a PL club in waiting, especially now as Lansdown is more interested in the performance of the Bristol Bears rugby team.
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That seems fair enough - you are clearly closer to that than me. Why then was he sacked after his best finish with them?

My overall concern is that managers need a certain skill set to get teams promoted. If they don't have that steely self-belief they may not be able to drag a squad over the line. There is nothing to suggest that Lee Johnson has what it takes to get a team promoted either in his past or to date at Sunderland. At L1 level we are in a totally different situation to Bristol City in that he doesn't have 3 or 4 seasons to achieve promotion. If he doesn't get us up this year I think his reputation will be set - fine if you want to develop a few youngsters that you can sell on and fine if you want to jog about mid-table but not a manager to fight his way through a promotion season. Him say we started the season with no expectations suggests a man who is pretty worried and that is not a good sign.
 
Emcon said:
The 'plan' is an irrelevant point outside of transfer windows and is being used as an excuse by some fans as an avoidance strategy.
The manager himself is feeling the heat, because of his five league defeats, three of them were battering's and you simply can't carry that many battering's and not expect a reaction.

At the moment most of Johnson's allies have adopted a logical fallacy and that's to argue any debate should be restricted to a comparison between Johnson and Parkinson. That's because, Jack Ross statistically and professionally is clearly the better manager and had far more chaos to deal with than Johnson ever had to sort out at the outset. If for a moment you accept he was the better man and still failed, then it undermines the blind faith and dissonance all over the shop people have for Johnson.

From my position; I don't think Johnson should be managing anything and whilst he could probably coach in the premiership, his character and personality are incompatible with the requirements of being a good leader and rather reminds me of John Carver and that is not a complement.
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jack ross has does nothing asa manager yet to show he can handle thepressure of a high profile club-he had the best team of the lot in league one and failed
 
Because people are terrified of being labelled as a bedwetter on here so they accept any old shite and clap the lads off
 
Vauxie said:
Cos everyone is duped by this new plan/vision,the data, the kids, the new owner.
Load of tripe.
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every club has a project, and uses data, only safc didnt much,and thats why its the least successfulclub in egland relative to its potential over the past decade and more.
 
If we sack Johnson, irrespective of who is manager, do we think this squad will get top 2? I don't. Its just not good enough imo.

For me, it will be interesting to see what business is done in January. If very little and this season is part of a long term plan that wouldn't even come close to being acceptable.

We need to get up this season. I have deep concerns those running the club dont view promotion as being essential this season. That would worry me greatly as we're going to start losing large numbers of supporters the longer we hang around here. Patience is extremely thin at the mo.
 
kildaremackem said:
jack ross has does nothing asa manager yet to show he can handle thepressure of a high profile club-he had the best team of the lot in league one and failed
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To be fair to Ross he had far more challenges than Johnson and managed to rebuild the squad and took us to a playoff final and was undone by the scruffiest of goals, all whilst working under a chairman who was asset stripping the club and even sold our goal scorer(Maja) of the time and THAT was the crux of why we've being stuck in League one for so long.

People talk about player psychology, but what about the fans? I've scratched my head about the obsession around Johnson and when the new owner decided to stick with Johnson a certain section of fans were afflicted by a product of projection which meant Johnson became a made man and criticizing him became a criticism of the owner which is entirely not allowed.

As for pressure, I think Johnson will be a certainty to beat Ipswich and everyone will rally again. But remember what we discussed when things fall apart again and 5 defeats at this stage of the season is a massive red flag that the next dip won't be months away, but the game after the ipswich game or the one after that.
North Yorks Mackem said:
If we sack Johnson, irrespective of who is manager, do we think this squad will get top 2? I don't. Its just not good enough imo.

For me, it will be interesting to see what business is done in January. If very little and this season is part of a long term plan that wouldn't even come close to being acceptable.

We need to get up this season. I have deep concerns those running the club dont view promotion as being essential this season. That would worry me greatly as we're going to start losing large numbers of supporters the longer we hang around here. Patience is extremely thin at the mo.
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I wonder what the 'deep planners' will say if we finish outside the playoffs come the end of season ? and I do honestly think as you do. This season is deemed by the plan as a bonus if we did go up, but building everything from the bottom up is fine if next season everything clicks into place, but exactly what happened with Jack Ross(when we last carried out a plan) you suddenly find that instead your going two steps back for every step forward.
 
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Emcon said:
To be fair to Ross he had far more challenges than Johnson and managed to rebuild the squad and took us to a playoff final and was undone by the scruffiest of goals, all whilst working under a chairman who was asset stripping the club and even sold our goal scorer(Maja) of the time and THAT was the crux of why we've being stuck in League one for so long.

People talk about player psychology, but what about the fans? I've scratched my head about the obsession around Johnson and when the new owner decided to stick with Johnson a certain section of fans were afflicted by a product of projection which meant Johnson became a made man and criticizing him became a criticism of the owner which is entirely not allowed.

As for pressure, I think Johnson will be a certainty to beat Ipswich and everyone will rally again. But remember what we discussed when things fall apart again and 5 defeats at this stage of the season is a massive red flag that the next dip won't be months away, but the game after the ipswich game or the one after that.

I wonder what the 'deep planners' will say if we finish outside the playoffs come the end of season ? and I do honestly think as you do. This season is deemed by the plan as a bonus if we did go up, but building everything from the bottom up is fine if next season everything clicks into place, but exactly what happened with Jack Ross(when we last carried out a plan) you suddenly find that instead your going two steps back for every step forward.
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there wasabsoltely noplan when ross wasmanager...and that not a criticism of ross but of the others.

safc sold a goal scorer in the january but then so did charlton, who went up.
rosshad the biggest budget (not asset stripping) of any of oyr league one managers i ters of wages-and itswages spend which usually correlates with results, not transfer spend,.
 
I'm sacking my season ticket off if we don't go up this year like. Properly can't be arsed with how shit both SAFC and this league are. Yes I'm a plastic
 
ironman said:
Season after season it’s the same excuses we are a premier league club with a third rate coach
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Its incredible how crap we are. We cannot even get out of the 3rd division after 3 attempts. Pathetic.

...and people get touchy when we start singing "we're f*ing shit" at Hillsborough the other day. Lj was nearly crying on his interview afterwards.

We need to act like the club that we are and be smashing our way up the leagues.

Minnows like Brentford and backwater clubs like Watford and Norwich absolutely take the piss out our situation.
 
only one rade prica said:
Its incredible how crap we are. We cannot even get out of the 3rd division after 3 attempts. Pathetic.

...and people get touchy when we start singing "we're f*ing shit" at Hillsborough the other day. Lj was nearly crying on his interview afterwards.

We need to act like the club that we are and be smashing our way up the leagues.

Minnows like Brentford and backwater clubs like Watford and Norwich absolutely take the piss out our situation.
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norwhich watford and brentford are very well run clubs..safchasbeen hideously badky run for a long time
 
Binxy said:
What's with this "he's improved every team he's been at"

He was starting from a low base as the teams he joined were under performing and had just sacked their manager.

If he takes SAFC from 8th to 4th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, technically he's improved us while we're still stinking out league one...what a load of shite.
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I'd never heard of him when he rocked up here so I checked his previous. From memory all three clubs were battling against relegation, he rescued the situation, took two of them to their highest finish for ten years or so which got him noticed and ultimately headhunted. Both Barnsley and Bristol paid out compensation packages to land him. He did reasonably well at Bristol but ultimately failed to take them to the promised land and was sacked. If you look at his record I think it's safe to suggest he's improved every side he's managed and that he's an average championship manager. I don't even think it's contentious TBH.
 
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