Racism at Yorkshire CCC

[HarrogateMackem]

There was an interesting discussion on the radio earlier about classism in cricket. Many comments about players being picked due to their backgrounds and education.
That's maybe the case but, growing up, I can remember going to headingley and there being hundreds of pissed up folk on the western terrace singing football songs and even fighting at times....far from an upper class spectator sport.

I know when I was in school and also my younger brother was playing that if you didn't play for Harrogate CC you weren't getting in the North Yorkshire team, and almost all of their players went to the private schools. We had a few lads in our school who were decent enough cricketers but didn't get a chance because they played for Ripon, Hampsthwaite etc.

I mean the facts don't lie as well. 462 men’s county cricketers in 2020, 152 went to fee-paying schools and 184 to non-fee paying - with 126 educated overseas. In other words, 45% of the men being employed to play county cricket who were educated in this country come from a private school background. While only 7% of the population attend independent schools.

I think the question is how do we change that, and ethnic minority communities in the UK are working class and very few go to private schools, so by definition making the game more inclusive on a class level will also make it more racially inclusive.

 

[Gazoliver]

I know when I was in school and also my younger brother was playing that if you didn't play for Harrogate CC you weren't getting in the North Yorkshire team, and almost all of their players went to the private schools. We had a few lads in our school who were decent enough cricketers but didn't get a chance because they played for Ripon, Hampsthwaite etc.

I mean the facts don't lie as well. 462 men’s county cricketers in 2020, 152 went to fee-paying schools and 184 to non-fee paying - with 126 educated overseas. In other words, 45% of the men being employed to play county cricket who were educated in this country come from a private school background. While only 7% of the population attend independent schools.

I think the question is how do we change that, and ethnic minority communities in the UK are working class and very few go to private schools, so by definition making the game more inclusive on a class level will also make it more racially inclusive.

Good post mate and interesting stats.
Which school did you go to? I was at Harrogate Grammar so our local team was Harrogate CC anyway. Played at junior level for them and ended up at Beckwithshaw when it all got a bit serious (I wasn't good enough!)

 

[sonson]

I know when I was in school and also my younger brother was playing that if you didn't play for Harrogate CC you weren't getting in the North Yorkshire team, and almost all of their players went to the private schools. We had a few lads in our school who were decent enough cricketers but didn't get a chance because they played for Ripon, Hampsthwaite etc.

I mean the facts don't lie as well. 462 men’s county cricketers in 2020, 152 went to fee-paying schools and 184 to non-fee paying - with 126 educated overseas. In other words, 45% of the men being employed to play county cricket who were educated in this country come from a private school background. While only 7% of the population attend independent schools.

I think the question is how do we change that, and ethnic minority communities in the UK are working class and very few go to private schools, so by definition making the game more inclusive on a class level will also make it more racially inclusive.

A big percentage of inner city- so as you say, schools with the most ethnically diverse population- schools don't even have cricket pitches. Ditto rugby. Goes all the way to the most basic form of privelege and assumptions in the country, stuff like property and land ownership.

All English sport is held back massively by classism and racism. It reduces enormously the talent pool on the basis of things that have fuck all to do with potential or ability.

 

[Comeback_Kenwyne]

A big percentage of inner city- so as you say, schools with the most ethnically diverse population- schools don't even have cricket pitches. Ditto rugby. Goes all the way to the most basic form of privelege and assumptions in the country, stuff like property and land ownership.

All English sport is held back massively by classism and racism. It reduces enormously the talent pool on the basis of things that have fuck all to do with potential or ability.

Football the exception (on classism), but aye. Current England team a breath of fresh air.
Good column here from Barney Ronay in the Guardian quite rightly turning the focus on the ostrich-like behaviour from the out of touch suits at the ECB.

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Think all cricket fans need to make sure they don't slip out of this by dumping on Yorkshire and using the possibility, likely imo, of another imminent white ball World Cup victory to distract from their disgraceful handling of the game at large.

 

[smoker]

Read on another group, the ECB are going to need to bail out YCCC financially due to the loss of sponsors and England matches. What's the betting they don't get relegated to the second division and docked 40 points?

 

[Billericay Dichio]

Flood gates will open now IMO and it’ll be discovered to be endemic in the professional game.

Government will get involved.

It's nothing new.

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You can still see people on here pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[HarrogateMackem]

Good post mate and interesting stats.
Which school did you go to? I was at Harrogate Grammar so our local team was Harrogate CC anyway. Played at junior level for them and ended up at Beckwithshaw when it all got a bit serious (I wasn't good enough!)

Ripon Grammar mate.

From what my brother says (Fishers), Harrogate CC will happily poach players from elsewhere offering them a chance at Yorkshire trials etc.

While schools in inner city Leeds for example just don't have any cricket coaches, pitches or anything.

 

[smoker]

Harrison:

"It is a very serious financial crisis that will now take place at Yorkshire, and we must now make sure that we find the balance right between helping and rehabilitating this very famous club from financial oblivion.

We will try to get that balance right and work with whatever governance structure, whatever leadership is in place at Yorkshire County Cricket Club. We will work closely with them to try to rebuild that trust and obviously stabilise the club from a financial perspective."

Here we go...

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[safccfas]

I know when I was in school and also my younger brother was playing that if you didn't play for Harrogate CC you weren't getting in the North Yorkshire team, and almost all of their players went to the private schools. We had a few lads in our school who were decent enough cricketers but didn't get a chance because they played for Ripon, Hampsthwaite etc.

I mean the facts don't lie as well. 462 men’s county cricketers in 2020, 152 went to fee-paying schools and 184 to non-fee paying - with 126 educated overseas. In other words, 45% of the men being employed to play county cricket who were educated in this country come from a private school background. While only 7% of the population attend independent schools.

I think the question is how do we change that, and ethnic minority communities in the UK are working class and very few go to private schools, so by definition making the game more inclusive on a class level will also make it more racially inclusive.

thats more to do with the fact state schools very rarely play cricket, it’s the same for rugby and football (with football being the opposite way around). Your ‘facts’ are actually a set of statistics taken in isolation. Statistics taken in isolation like this can be misconstrued and hide an underlying set of data that impacts the stats people choose to use .... that’s very much the case in this instance. Simply speaking, more kids play cricket at private schools than state schools therefore more end up in the professional game.

Out of interest how long ago was it when your bother went to school? What you’ve described was very much the case 20/30 years ago when I went through the system. I’m not so sure that’s the case today. From what I see across the north east the private school / state school divide on county / regional selection is a lot less than it was 20/30 years ago.

 

[HarrogateMackem]

Harrison:

"It is a very serious financial crisis that will now take place at Yorkshire, and we must now make sure that we find the balance right between helping and rehabilitating this very famous club from financial oblivion.

We will try to get that balance right and work with whatever governance structure, whatever leadership is in place at Yorkshire County Cricket Club. We will work closely with them to try to rebuild that trust and obviously stabilise the club from a financial perspective."

Here we go...

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Didn't they say similar about Durham?

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"The ECB have set aside £2m of Durham’s debt following the agreement that the county can no longer stage Tests.

ECB chief executive Tom Harrison said: “We’ve been working with Durham County Cricket Club throughout the year on how best to address their financial issues; we welcome the club’s willingness to review its business model and management structures.

“There is no doubt that a strong, financially robust Durham County Cricket Club has a vital role to play in developing England talent, enriching our domestic competitions and underpinning the wider growth of the game in the north-east.”

Durham’s financial situation is one of “unprecedented seriousness”, according to Harrison – who added: “To help them through these difficulties and continue as a first-class county, this had to be addressed with immediate, practical financial assistance.”

thats more to do with the fact state schools very rarely play cricket, it’s the same for rugby and football (with football being the opposite way around). Your ‘facts’ are actually a set of statistics taken in isolation. Statistics taken in isolation like this can be misconstrued and hide an underlying set of data that impacts the stats people choose to use .... that’s very much the case in this instance. Simply speaking, more kids play cricket at private schools than state schools therefore more end up in the professional game.

Out of interest how long ago was it when your bother went to school? What you’ve described was very much the case 20/30 years ago when I went through the system. I’m not so sure that’s the case today. From what I see across the north east the private school / state school divide on county / regional selection is a lot less than it was 20/30 years ago.

He's there now mate

 

[safccfas]

Didn't they say similar about Durham?

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"The ECB have set aside £2m of Durham’s debt following the agreement that the county can no longer stage Tests.

ECB chief executive Tom Harrison said: “We’ve been working with Durham County Cricket Club throughout the year on how best to address their financial issues; we welcome the club’s willingness to review its business model and management structures.

“There is no doubt that a strong, financially robust Durham County Cricket Club has a vital role to play in developing England talent, enriching our domestic competitions and underpinning the wider growth of the game in the north-east.”

Durham’s financial situation is one of “unprecedented seriousness”, according to Harrison – who added: “To help them through these difficulties and continue as a first-class county, this had to be addressed with immediate, practical financial assistance.”

He's there now mate

interesting. There’s definitely been improvement in this area in the north east. Was definitely like you’ve described back when I was at school. You had to be something special to get in ahead of the Durham School lads !

 

[sonson]

thats more to do with the fact state schools very rarely play cricket, it’s the same for rugby and football (with football being the opposite way around). Your ‘facts’ are actually a set of statistics taken in isolation. Statistics taken in isolation like this can be misconstrued and hide an underlying set of data that impacts the stats people choose to use .... that’s very much the case in this instance. Simply speaking, more kids play cricket at private schools than state schools therefore more end up in the professional game.

Out of interest how long ago was it when your bother went to school? What you’ve described was very much the case 20/30 years ago when I went through the system. I’m not so sure that’s the case today. From what I see across the north east the private school / state school divide on county / regional selection is a lot less than it was 20/30 years ago.

The main reason state schools rarely play rugby and cricket is entirely because of class though.

And also, for the same reason, they often don't have the facilities to even make it an option if they did want to

 

[safccfas]

It's taken sponsors to withdraw and for MPs to get stuck in for things to start and progress having tried badly to brush this under the carpet. The loss of Nike as a sponsor will cost them a fortune for example, hit them in the pocket. This is only the start. Need more from the ECB who up until yesterday have been incredibly cowardly and weak.

the loss of the Nike deal won’t have cost them that much. There isn’t that much money in cricket club deals for kit providers. What will be difficult is another brand stepping in and filling the void that’s been left. No one will touch them.

The main reason state schools rarely play rugby and cricket is entirely because of class though.

And also, for the same reason, they often don't have the facilities to even make it an option if they did want to

Your first paragraph is rubbish.
Your second paragraph is absolutely spot on.
Every mining town in the north of England had a cricket team and a rugby team when the mines were open. Most still do!

 

[Parkside]

Can't recall many private school pupils really progressing to a good 1st class career at Durham ,all our international graduates have come through the state sector. Cant recall any successful products from RGS, Durham or Barnard Castle schools( Dominic Cummings was promising but he was hampered by vision problems apparently). Strong junior sections in club sides is the start of the production lines,that's why Durham's Academy is so successful.

 

[mackembhoy]

Harrison:

"It is a very serious financial crisis that will now take place at Yorkshire, and we must now make sure that we find the balance right between helping and rehabilitating this very famous club from financial oblivion.

We will try to get that balance right and work with whatever governance structure, whatever leadership is in place at Yorkshire County Cricket Club. We will work closely with them to try to rebuild that trust and obviously stabilise the club from a financial perspective."

Here we go...

You must be logged on to see external links

I want to dislike the post.

f***ing wankers man

 

[sonson]

the loss of the Nike deal won’t have cost them that much. There isn’t that much money in cricket club deals for kit providers. What will be difficult is another brand stepping in and filling the void that’s been left. No one will touch them.

Your first paragraph is rubbish.
Your second paragraph is absolutely spot on.
Every mining town in the north of England had a cricket team and a rugby team when the mines were open. Most still do!

No mate, it's a fact.

The connection between cricket and rugby as being essential to public school curriculums as a matter of developing certain characteristics within the British Officer class/aristocracy is quite simply that, a fact. Any number of books related to the histories of both those sports and the British Empire will tell you that with the most cursory examination.

The values associated with those sports and concepts of gentlemanly behaviour were obviously accepted throughout the country as beneficial and agreeable and a lot of civic investment was made into how to breed these sorts of character traits in Citizens of the Empire, where ever they were, especially in India where the acceptance of British values was paramount in the establishment of order in the absence of a military to enforce it.

Which is why at the beginning of the 20th century you would find cricket pitches not just in the NE of England but also in India, South Africa, Australia etc. Again thats just a fact, its not a matter of historical interpretation, there's hundreds of contemporary sources of British establishment figures stating that, and why they believe proliferation of cricket is necessary to the wellbeing of Britain.

By the time most comprehensive, so non private
schools were constructed, the emphasis on what and how children should be taught had changed drastically, and the place of sport as being training for colonial duty wasn't a part of it.

Whereas in Private schools like Eton, the curriculum is still very much on the notion of being a class of people bred to rule and be above the rest. And as has been demonstrated in multiple instances, those values and prejudices still Infect the sport at the highest level.

 

[safccfas]

No mate, it's a fact.

The connection between cricket and rugby as being essential to public school curriculums as a matter of developing certain characteristics within the British Officer class/aristocracy is quite simply that, a fact. Any number of books related to the histories of both those sports and the British Empire will tell you that with the most cursory examination.

The values associated with those sports and concepts of gentlemanly behaviour were obviously accepted throughout the country as beneficial and a lot of civic investment was made into how to breed these sorts of character traits in Citizens of the Empire. Which is why at the beginning of the 20th century you would find cricket pitches not just in the NE of England but also in India, South Africa, Australia etc. Again thats just a fact, its not a matter of historical interpretation, there's hundreds of contemporary sources of British establishment figures stating that, and why they believe proliferation of cricket is necessary to the wellbeing of Britain.

By the time most comprehensive, so non private
schools were constructed, the emphasis on what and how children should be taught had changed drastically, and the place of sport as being training for colonial duty wasn't a part of it.

Whereas in Private schools like Eton, the curriculum is still very much on the notion of being a class of people bred to rule and be above the rest. And as has been demonstrated in multiple instances, those values and prejudices still Infect the sport at the highest level.

What the fuck man.....
Doesn’t matter what bollocks you’ve copy and pasted off the internet you can not claim that rugby and cricket isn’t played in the north of England by the working class..... that’s simply not true

 

[sonson]

What the fuck man.....
Doesn’t matter what bollocks you’ve copy and pasted off the internet you can not claim that rugby and cricket isn’t played in the north of England by the working class..... that’s simply not true

I didn't say that mate. Not remotley.

Try again.

It's not Copy pasted. I just know a lot about British history.

 

[safccfas]

I didn't say that mate. Not remotley.

Try again.

It's not Copy pasted. I just know a lot about British history.

well what the fuck are you wittering on about then ?

 

[sonson]

well what the fuck are you wittering on about then ?

Sorry mate I didn't mean to inconvenience you with having to read or learn something, evidently that's not your sort of thing