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NUFC/Sportwashing

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Grumpy Old Man said:
The extra money per place is only around £2m. To get from where you are into what some of your fans think is pushing for Europe would bring in around £15m more, but cost at least 10 times that to achieve. And once there, you have to keep up with the Jones's or be left behind. You can only do that with, guess what, zero net spend. Ashley has concluded, rightly, that the game isn't worth the candle. The only way to square the circle is by generating consistently making large profits on players - negative net spend. To do that, you have to be supremely good at spotting and developing talent, and not wasting money on players where you'll need to recoup investment. In other words don't buy Joelintons and Almirons. You need the recruitment skills to sell St Maximin, and buy two replacements who'll be as good, then rinse and repeat. It's actually a virtuous circle, because you should end up improving the squad. All it needs is a bit a patience ............. oh.
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Isn't this what they did with the likes of Cabaye, Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Carroll, etc,etc....?
Of course they yoused the net spend argument to justify their hatred of Ashley.🤷‍♂️
 

Sabre Mag said:
Eddie Howe.

He is so so so bad. Like so bad. There are literally still fans saying he isn't that bad and will come good. He's the player that keeps needing a full pre season despite having 3 and still being garbage. And Bruce keeps playing him.
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He doesn't strike me as the sort of manager who would get instant results. I think he's a "long-term project" type manager where it will take him time to turn things around. Do you think that's what you need ?
 
The Fish said:
£15m purely in terms of merit payments though, right? There's plenty of money to be made in European competition from tv and commercial deals. Ashley has neglected the commercial side of the business so much that there is plenty of room to grow there. Plus the improved caliber of players you can attract (and sell).

I agree recruitment is both vital and difficult. We seemed to have a good recruitment model for a while, but wasted that talent under poor managerial appointments. There needs to be an holistic approach to the club. It's no good signing quality players like Wijnaldum, Sissoko, Saint-Maximin or whomever and wasting them on Pardew, Carver, McClaren and Bruce.

So we should just meekly accept that the club is pointless?
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Yes....we have 🤣🤣🤣
 
Nathan Gunn said:
He doesn't strike me as the sort of manager who would get instant results. I think he's a "long-term project" type manager where it will take him time to turn things around. Do you think that's what you need ?
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Thought similar myself about Howe, and I can only speak personally and say I would take a relegation under Howe, as I would maintain a sense of optimism he could implement what he wants on the team over a longer period. I honestly believe Bruce is one of the most incompetent managers we have ever had, and it's a feeling shared by fans of quite a few clubs. A relegation with Bruce still in charge will be disastrous for a number of reasons (so sit back and enjoy 🤣😉)
 
Bear Heed said:
Sorry to break this to you but you have no other option until someone wants to buy it badly enough.

No one does I'm afraid.

You cling to the price being too high, to mask that fact but, in reality, the sale price isn't that significant. If the difference between what Ashley wants and what the club is worth is only the cost of Almiron and Joe then a genuine buyer wouldn't be put off.

After all, to get the club on the track supporters expect there's around the same amount, as the buying price, to spend on the squad, the training facilities and the ground. Bear in mind that the new owner will never own the ground so all expenditure is 'wasted' and it can't be sold or mortgaged.

If the Saudis had really wanted the club for itself they'd have easily found a foolproof way to do it and avoid the PL tests, etc. The truth is that they wanted it to promote themselves and the club was totally irrelevant.

You can't deny that, no one can.
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I don't 'cling to it' It's just the my opinion that if any other buyer threw £350m at Ashley he'd be keen to sell to them as well. There's rumours he's also trying to expand Sports Direct into the MIddle East, but he'd be happy enough to sell to the Reubens if they wanted to stump up the cash (which they don't).

I don't think fans are expecting £350m on the squad from new buyers. All that I read from non-twats when the Saudi takeover was first mentioned was, because of FFP we'd be 'limited' to c£50m a season + whatever we made on player sales.

The Saudis 100% only wanted the club for Sportswashing, and they naively/arrogantly/ignorantly assumed that they'd get accepted without having to go through bureaucracy.
 
Sabre Mag said:
I think he would, and to be honest I'm not sure how much resistance there would be as at the moment it's the anyone but Bruce theory (and that's a camp I'm in pretty much). Said it so many times, that I could forgive his more (ahem) limited management skills, if he was not such a bullshitting victim and shouldered some blame.

His last few carbon copy interviews have talked about not deserving to lose, being unlucky, keepr not having a save to make (neither did theirs Steve) etc etc. Not an ounce of responsibility on himself.
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Wouldn’t argue with that. His comments after Saturday were just plain daft. He appeared, despite what we all saw, to be suggesting it was a close thing. I think it may be time to reach that ‘mutual consent’ position.
 
Biffo The Bear said:
Wouldn’t argue with that. His comments after Saturday were just plain daft. He appeared, despite what we all saw, to be suggesting it was a close thing. I think it may be time to reach that ‘mutual consent’ position.
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Thing is mate, he's far far too arrogant, stubborn and proud to accept he is not up to the job. And every game he manages us, leads us closer to another relegation. He claims to care about the club, walk away then. He's done what he was brought in to do, keep us up, twice. But his time has come (and gone a while ago) IMO.
 
The Fish said:
I never hated Sir John Hall. Although as more came out about his shenanigans, the more tarnished his ownership became.

Only owners I can remember wanting shot of are Douglas and Freddy, and now Ashley. I'm not old enough to remember McKeag properly.
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I do remember McKeag and the clamour to get him sacked. I don't remember Seymour but seemingly he spent nowt as well.
 
The Fish said:
I don't think fans are expecting £350m on the squad from new buyers. All that I read from non-twats when the Saudi takeover was first mentioned was, because of FFP we'd be 'limited' to c£50m a season + whatever we made on player sales.

The Saudis 100% only wanted the club for Sportswashing, and they naively/arrogantly/ignorantly assumed that they'd get accepted without having to go through bureaucracy.
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I didn't say that.

I said on the squad, the training facilities and the ground. Good players want better players around them and modern facilities.

Ashley, having pocketed the Saudi deposit etc would probably take 300m if it was a cash payment, not the hire purchase deal Staveley wants.

And 200m, less the rebuilding, is what it would take to sack Bruce and his staff, bring in a top manager and rebuild the squad. The current squad, minus ASM, doesn't have a great value as Wilson can't stay fit.

So, yes, you'd have to spend double the value of the club to get anywhere near the top 6, and if you don't reach that level there's no point, of which Ashley is well aware.

I keep hearing that there are buyers 'waiting in the wings' to buy the club. In reality no one is really interested.
 
Bear Heed said:
I didn't say that.

I said on the squad, the training facilities and the ground. Good players want better players around them and modern facilities.

Ashley, having pocketed the Saudi deposit etc would probably take 300m if it was a cash payment, not the hire purchase deal Staveley wants.

And 200m, less the rebuilding, is what it would take to sack Bruce and his staff, bring in a top manager and rebuild the squad. The current squad, minus ASM, doesn't have a great value as Wilson can't stay fit.

So, yes, you'd have to spend double the value of the club to get anywhere near the top 6, and if you don't reach that level there's no point, of which Ashley is well aware.

I keep hearing that there are buyers 'waiting in the wings' to buy the club. In reality no one is really interested.
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Mike wants his loan back and Queen Mandy doesn't have the coin.
 
Bear Heed said:
I didn't say that.

I said on the squad, the training facilities and the ground. Good players want better players around them and modern facilities.

Ashley, having pocketed the Saudi deposit etc would probably take 300m if it was a cash payment, not the hire purchase deal Staveley wants.

And 200m, less the rebuilding, is what it would take to sack Bruce and his staff, bring in a top manager and rebuild the squad. The current squad, minus ASM, doesn't have a great value as Wilson can't stay fit.

So, yes, you'd have to spend double the value of the club to get anywhere near the top 6, and if you don't reach that level there's no point, of which Ashley is well aware.

I keep hearing that there are buyers 'waiting in the wings' to buy the club. In reality no one is really interested.
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It's not an instant expense though. You don't have to replace the staff AND rebuild the squad in 1 season. So, say we take your figure of £200m, and the consortium's stated plan to invest £50m in the squad + whatever they raise from sales. You're talking, what 4-5 seasons of gradual improvement to get close to top 6? Now, I don't think that'd be enough without the right appointments, good recruitment and a lot of luck.

I believe that with a better manager, this squad could be competing around 12th without needing unbelievable form at the end of the season. To get top half could take £50m.

re: buyers, Ashley, journalists, Ashley's lawyers, have all said there are other credible bidders. The latter in the CAT hearing, which I'm guessing comes under the same rules about lying as a 'normal' court. We've heard rumours of the Orleggi group who own Santos, GACP who own Bordeaux, and various others. All on a sliding scale of believability. I don't doubt there are those who'd like to buy Newcastle United.
 
The Fish said:
It's not an instant expense though. You don't have to replace the staff AND rebuild the squad in 1 season. So, say we take your figure of £200m, and the consortium's stated plan to invest £50m in the squad + whatever they raise from sales. You're talking, what 4-5 seasons of gradual improvement to get close to top 6? Now, I don't think that'd be enough without the right appointments, good recruitment and a lot of luck.

I believe that with a better manager, this squad could be competing around 12th without needing unbelievable form at the end of the season. To get top half could take £50m.

re: buyers, Ashley, journalists, Ashley's lawyers, have all said there are other credible bidders. The latter in the CAT hearing, which I'm guessing comes under the same rules about lying as a 'normal' court. We've heard rumours of the Orleggi group who own Santos, GACP who own Bordeaux, and various others. All on a sliding scale of believability. I don't doubt there are those who'd like to buy Newcastle United.
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problem with that is the top 6 will also be investing 50m a season in the squad. you'll never catch them.
 
The Fish said:
It's not an instant expense though. You don't have to replace the staff AND rebuild the squad in 1 season. So, say we take your figure of £200m, and the consortium's stated plan to invest £50m in the squad + whatever they raise from sales. You're talking, what 4-5 seasons of gradual improvement to get close to top 6? Now, I don't think that'd be enough without the right appointments, good recruitment and a lot of luck.

I believe that with a better manager, this squad could be competing around 12th without needing unbelievable form at the end of the season. To get top half could take £50m.

re: buyers, Ashley, journalists, Ashley's lawyers, have all said there are other credible bidders. The latter in the CAT hearing, which I'm guessing comes under the same rules about lying as a 'normal' court. We've heard rumours of the Orleggi group who own Santos, GACP who own Bordeaux, and various others. All on a sliding scale of believability. I don't doubt there are those who'd like to buy Newcastle United.
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:lol:

5 seasons!

The bedsheets would be out after 2.

NUFC has been on sale for years, no takers.

Your only excuse is that Ashley wants too much which I and, ironically you, have just shown isn't quite the case. The purchase price isn't that significant and could be recouped according to you.
 
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genewolf said:
I do remember McKeag and the clamour to get him sacked. I don't remember Seymour but seemingly he spent nowt as well.
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Different times......the only money clubs had to spend was season ticket sales and any other income generated from pie/peanut/programmes/golden goal & lottery tickets
 
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Squat said:
problem with that is the top 6 will also be investing 50m a season in the squad. you'll never catch them.
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We don't need to catch the top 6, we just need to get ahead of the likes of Palace, Southampton, Brighton, Burnley, et al. Also, as we've seen with Arsenal this season and previously the likes of Spurs and Everton. Those top clubs can still have bad seasons and falter down the league. It isn't a closed shop.
 
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