Voice of fair play
Striker
Always is even a thread about it been the worst England test team since the 90s, criticism way over the top when losing and people lose perspective, mind it’s the same with Sunderland like.
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England v India (Third Test) Headingley
- Thread starter The Truth
- Start date
smoker
Striker
Statistics can be deceptive. Several of those wins have been against a weakened SA side or SL He's also had Anderson and Broad to call on in English conditions. He's also been the luckiest England captain in history for winning coin tosses!
I'd put him ahead of Cook but he's not in the same league as Vaughan or Brierley as a leader or tactician.
HarrogateMackem
Striker
Yeah but, in hindsight, how he managed to keep all those egos together and get them to play well is quite something.
SAFC 2012
Striker
On the flip side though the teams vaughan was facing were far better than some of the shite kicking about atm
Jack Torrance
Striker
Did he?
SAFC 2012
Striker
Yes.
Test cricket is shite quality wise these days if we are being honest
Australia, south africa, west indies, pakistan, india etc all had better sides then than they do now. Not even up for debate really that if you look at it
rentaghost
Striker
I think it balances out. NZ are miles stronger now and India have a better bowling attack. Aussie were miles better then and SA.
Well we are debating it. I think on balance you may be right but I think Sri Lanka apart all test nations currently have excellent bowlers. They certainly aren’t shite.
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Jack Torrance
Striker
India have a better team now. Also the strongest New Zealand team they’ve had
SAFC 2012
Striker
Thats why i left new zealand out
India dont. Lets be honest. Theres only kohli gets in that side as a batsmen. Bowlers are better aye.
There no debating it at all like. South africa, australia, pakistan, west indies, sri lanka were all far better then.
Im not sure theres a counter argument tbh. Just look at the line ups
rentaghost
Striker
You left NZ out because it didn’t suit your argument. NZ are miles better now, India have a far stronger attack, WI were no better back in 2005. I agree with you just about but yes it is debateable.
SAFC 2012
Striker
West indies werent out flashthe. But they had better players than now.
I agreed india have a better attack so not sure what your point is there. I also said new zealand are better so again not sure
Test cricket is nowhere near as good as it was 15 year ago. Theres a massive lack of quality
Theres only joe root would get in the side vaughan had out of this lot.
Jack Torrance
Striker
India in 2007 had Dinesh Karthik and Wasim Jaffer opening. Rohit and Pujara over those 2 for me and their attack is miles better. The fact they can leave Ashwin out is ridiculous.
Some sides are better and some worse
rentaghost
Striker
WI are better now than in 2005 IMO. NZ are miles better and India are debateabky better. The point is you were over-egging the difference in quality between then and now.
scotch
Striker
1st wicket in a 2nd innings for 7 tests today, odd thing as don't think he's bowled poor in 2nd innings
As a better too
What we thinking/prefer next test, hint to the oval, don't make a bunsen.
Think I'd like Bairstow to get the gloves tbh, Outside of last year Buttler has never convinced as someone playing their natural game.
Curran out for Woakes if fit, maybe Mahmood if pitch looks flat.
Pope, Livingstone, Vince in for Buttler? Livingstone in form, Vince finally looked over that mental hurdle in the ODIS, pope was 6 before he got injured
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Dexter
Striker
Literally any bowler in world cricket in for Curran. Overton can hold a bat so him stepping up to 8 isn’t a problem. Then any of Wood, Mahmood or Leach depending on conditions.
Batting wise I can’t see any argument against Livingstone to be honest. The stand out batsman of county cricket, aye he hasn’t played any red ball for a while but neither has anyone else. Pope needs to get runs before he comes back into the team.
I am Boss
Winger
We go again. Let's see how much luck I have with day 4 at Old Trafford...I have a day 5 ticket so desperately hoping for the same
aye because Michael Vaughan never played weaker teams?
csnt agree with any of this
root has got the best out of Jimmy and broad who have bowled better under him than most captains
and Vaughan had 3 90mph bowlers in his side plus a much much better line up
Vaughan had much more cards in his favour
to get all those wins for root without having any top 3 is remarkable
no argument for livingstone?
there isn’t an argument for him
on what basis should he be in the test team?
No they didn’t
India, NZ and West Indies are miles better now than the period you are talking about
why are people so desperate to downplay England’s success!?!? It’s just mad and factually incorrect
haha so Ben stokes and our best ever bowler don’t get in that England team?
that has to be a wind up!!
he always does this, people are so much “better in my day”
it’s simply not true
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Voice of fair play
Striker
I am not saying Livingstone should be in the side, but guess the argument is that he will be full of confidence
alexraeschin
Midfield
Anyone know when the highlights come on iplayer?
smoker
Striker
Vaughan beat arguably the greatest Australian team of all time. Joe Root hasn't won an Ashes series as captain.
In terms of 'weakened teams' Vaughan whitewashed Brian Lara's West Indies side home and away, a team that was a lot better than the current WI team.
Joe makes too many strategic errors to be considered a great captain. Could you imagine Vaughan presiding over those day five tactics at Lords?
BTW, test matches now are far more likely to produce a result than in the past. While having the highest number of wins, Joe also has the second highest number of defeats.
