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English cricket - not as bad as we think?

TheRey

TheRey

Striker
Rewactching The Edge, and it got me thinking.


We - and I include myself in this - moan a lot on here about the state of English cricket. The selectors are rubbish, the system is rubbish, the management are rubbish, the players are rubbish. Its prevalent all over this board and the wider English cricketing public.

In 1999, we were the worst cricket team in the world. Officially.

But then in the last ten or so years, in all formats:

Tests -
Wins in India and Australia. Unbeaten in home Ashes since 2001. Were top of the World Rankings at one point. 7 years without a home Test series defeat. Like most sides, fragile away, but been nigh on unbeatable at home. Beating sides like India 4-1. Winning in SA, winning in Sri Lanka twice in two winters, winning all Tests. Nearly qualified for WTC final

T20: World Cup winners. World Cup runners up. Currently ranked (I think) as the top side in the world. One of the favourites for the WC.

ODI: For the last five years, by every possible metric, the best in the world. Bar none. Champions Trophy semis. Beating everyone home and away. World Cup winners. Will be among the faves for 2011.


That's a record over a little over a decade that any nation on Earth would be immensely proud of, but 99% of the time it's all doom and gloom.



So are we right to moan? Or are we just miserable bastards?
 

It's ten years since we beat Australia away in the Ashes. The white ball team has never been better, red ball team is a 6/10.
 
My views:

- the white ball team is tremendous, and given how shit we were that’s incredible
- the Test team is strong at home, and poor(ish) away. That’s actually quite common for Test teams around the world
- the planning in the last year has looked bonkers at times. Unprecedented blah blah blah but they have made some odd choices
- the criticism for promoting white ball cricket over red ball has some merit, but every board around the world is doing the same
- the Hundred is a pile of wank

In summary, I remember the 90s when we were shite. We’re pretty decent right now
 
chunkylover53 said:
In summary, I remember the 90s when we were shite. We’re pretty decent right now
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Some brilliant teams back then though. Australia were at their peak, South Africa, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Pakistan all had very good sides.

England have improved no doubt but I don't think quality from the other sides is as good. Yes England are unbeaten at home in Ashes since 2001, but a lot of that is due to the fact that Australia have produced some very ordinary sides since.
 
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smoker said:
They were garbage against NZ, even allowing for rotation. Conversely, good against SA and SL away.

I would say they're flat track bullies: good against weaker sides but poor against the top teams rather than a home team.
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Yeah they were. But first series loss at home in 8 years
Sharpshooter said:
Some brilliant teams back then though. Australia were at their peak, South Africa, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Pakistan all had very good sides.

England have improved no doubt but I don't think quality from the other sides is as good. Yes England are unbeaten at home in Ashes since 2001, but a lot of that is due to the fact that Australia have produced some very ordinary sides since.
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True yes. Some strong attacks, but weaker batting I would say
 
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chunkylover53 said:
Yeah they were. But first series loss at home in 8 years
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7 years. And it was f***ing Sri Lanka.

We got away with some really poor performances in won and drawn series in those seven years. We'd have lost the 2019 Ashes but for a world class innings by Stokes.
Sharpshooter said:
Some brilliant teams back then though. Australia were at their peak, South Africa, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Pakistan all had very good sides.

England have improved no doubt but I don't think quality from the other sides is as good. Yes England are unbeaten at home in Ashes since 2001, but a lot of that is due to the fact that Australia have produced some very ordinary sides since.
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Yeah, as bad as our 1990s team was, there are still players who would walk into this team, e.g. Atherton, Stewart, Thorpe, Gough, Fraser.
 
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smoker said:
7 years. And it was f***ing Sri Lanka.

We got away with some really poor performances in won and drawn series in those seven years. We'd have lost the 2019 Ashes but for a world class innings by Stokes.


Yeah, as bad as our 1990s team was, there are still players who would walk into this team, e.g. Atherton, Stewart, Thorpe, Gough, Fraser.
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Yeah. I can’t disagree.
 
smoker said:
7 years. And it was f***ing Sri Lanka.

We got away with some really poor performances in won and drawn series in those seven years. We'd have lost the 2019 Ashes but for a world class innings by Stokes.


Yeah, as bad as our 1990s team was, there are still players who would walk into this team, e.g. Atherton, Stewart, Thorpe, Gough, Fraser.
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Gough and Fraser arn't getting into this side and wouldn't at any point over the last 15 years.
 
TheRey said:
I'd have Gough over Stone, but Wood over Fraser.
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Fraser averaged 27
Wood averages 34 against worse batsmen

Blue and yellow glasses alert
Captain Slackbladder said:
We're all fully aware that the bowling department isn't the issue.....bar a world class spinner post Swan of course.
Its almost the opposite of the 90s to a degree.
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Gough and Fraser were good bowlers. It's the third and fourth seamer and spinner slot that were problematic
 
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smoker said:
Fraser averaged 27
Wood averages 34 against worse batsmen

Blue and yellow glasses alert


Gough and Fraser were good bowlers. It's the third and fourth seamer and spinner slot that were problematic
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Blue and yellow glasses? If anything mate, mine are brown ;)
 
When we beat India 4-0 in the test series 10 or 11 sunmers ago, that was probably the best England side I've ever seen. It would take an awful lot to match that but, overall, we've remained competitive at test level since then.

The transformation of the one day side has been astonishing. From average to poor for a good 20 years, we turned it around in a fifth of that time brilliantly.

It's natural for anyone to see things a bit worse than what they are now, and a bit better than it was in the past. Nostalgia sells.

We're good at test cricket and great in the one dayers. That'll do for me.
 
- Great white ball teams
- Iffy red ball team (and getting worse when our two main bowlers retire)
- Class and improving stadia
- Junior numbers on the up based on what’s going on in the NE
- Better reaching media deals

It’s an 8/10 looking at management of the wider game for me.
 
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