Criticism over the top?

T

The Rat

Striker
I just listened to espn cric info podcast and I had to turn it off, couldt believe what I was hearing

England have a mediocre top 5 for sure but like 4 tests ago? I think? We were top of the test championship after winning on a flat one in India

we won on 2 flat pitches in Sri Lanka

we won in South Africa on flat pitches against an excellent attack

we won both series last summer

now I’m told we can’t bat on flat ones? We picked players to do so and they have done to a degree


now I’m hearing the likes of that idio George dobell saying it’s as bad as we have ever been.

we were awful against NZ and it’s not a great lineup sure

but I can’t believe the reception by the media, so arrogant they are.

I can imagine the match threads were tasty on here but I can’t be the only one thinking we aren’t as bad as people are making out?

we won a hell of a lot of games

it comes back to my same annoyance, when we win it’s never because we are good it’s because the opposition were awful

however if we lose then those are the games that really count and we are awful

dobell’s sentiment was that English cricket is a mess and we got lucky with stokes n archer, 2 non uk born cricketers, his words

it really bugged me listening to that, I’ve worked with him a few times and he’s an absolute arsehole who loves the sound of his own voice

so maybe I just need to vent!
 


We do have weaknesses in the side but at the same time we're missing some of our top players. Every pundit seems to be putting the boot in from Ali Cook to Jonathan Agnew.

Some of them love to have a bandwagon to jump on especially Agnew but some of the criticism is way over the top.

Once we stuff India later this summer it will all be forgotten.
 
1st home series defeat in 7 years might have driven the reaction, some were already annoyed we didn’t try and chase the total in the 1st test.

We were outplayed in both tests mind and the batting looks terrible. Stokes/Buttler/Woakes will improve it but I’d be surprised if there weren’t a couple more changes also.


Aidan11 said:
We do have weaknesses in the side but at the same time we're missing some of our top players. Every pundit seems to be putting the boot in from Ali Cook to Jonathan Agnew.

Some of them love to have a bandwagon to jump on especially Agnew but some of the criticism is way over the top.

Once we stuff India later this summer it will all be forgotten.
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I’m not sure we’ll stuff India mind
 
We’ve been atrocious in our last five Test matches and it deserves to be called out. Sorry but I don’t think it’s over the top at all. The batting especially is horrendous, they seem to have forgotten the basics of batting (play straight ffs) and get out to hideous shots most of the time. It’s unacceptable.

ps I am interested in the juicy goss on Dobell mind. Never been a huge fan despite his support of the CC, as he always seems to have a downer on Yorkshire
 
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GordonMuchallNo1Fan said:
I've said for a long time, I don't think we're very good. Haven't changed that opinion and don't see much improvement ahead. Hope I'm wrong
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then why do we win so many games if we are shite?
Silly Point said:
We’ve been atrocious in our last five Test matches and it deserves to be called out. Sorry but I don’t think it’s over the top at all. The batting especially is horrendous, they seem to have forgotten the basics of batting (play straight ffs) and get out to hideous shots most of the time. It’s unacceptable.

ps I am interested in the juicy goss on Dobell mind. Never been a huge fan despite his support of the CC, as he always seems to have a downer on Yorkshire
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I'll give you the NZ series

but anyone criticising the batting in 2 of those inda tests needs their head shaking

2 of them were appalling, some of the worst pitches I've ever seen

no goss really he just talks and talks and talks and talks, and thinks he is reinventing the wheel with some of his views

Despite what you may think, in real life I'm quiet and placid :lol:

so someone like him just annoys the fuck out of me if I am honest
Jack Torrance said:
1st home series defeat in 7 years might have driven the reaction, some were already annoyed we didn’t try and chase the total in the 1st test.

We were outplayed in both tests mind and the batting looks terrible. Stokes/Buttler/Woakes will improve it but I’d be surprised if there weren’t a couple more changes also.




I’m not sure we’ll stuff India mind
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fair

just think the mediaseem to have forgotten how many games we won before that india series

I know sport is fickle but I have been a bit taken a back

its also ironic that they all wanted us to chase at lords (which was never ever on) because "the result doesnt matter"

well where has that logic gone in the next test?
 
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Much as I love the game, liking the sound of your own voice and thinking you’re reinventing the wheel with your opinions seems to be a common trait among its supporters. Just need to sit anywhere in any county or club ground in the country and you’ll soon see :lol:
 
The Rat said:
then why do we win so many games if we are shite?


I'll give you the NZ series

but anyone criticising the batting in 2 of those inda tests needs their head shaking

2 of them were appalling, some of the worst pitches I've ever seen

no goss really he just talks and talks and talks and talks, and thinks he is reinventing the wheel with some of his views

Despite what you may think, in real life I'm quiet and placid :lol:

so someone like him just annoys the fuck out of me if I am honest


fair

just think the mediaseem to have forgotten how many games we won before that india series

I know sport is fickle but I have been a bit taken a back

its also ironic that they all wanted us to chase at lords (which was never ever on) because "the result doesnt matter"

well where has that logic gone in the next test?
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Agree the chase was never on and I know people would have been quick to criticise the batting had we lost that test as well.

I was more annoyed that some of our best players missed the series because they were at the IPL which finished a month early but they’re now back playing white ball cricket for their counties.

Playing no spinner was disappointing though, they can’t keep using “Stokes wasn’t available” as an excuse for not playing a spinner
 
Players missing/resting, too much concentration on white ball cricket. The year will be defined by the Ashes series down under though, it’s about building to put on a solid performance there starting with the India tests. If we can beat India and win a couple of tests down under nobody will care about the NZ tests.
 
TheRey said:
I agree to an extent. NZ are a fabulous side, and the melodrama is a bit OTT.

That said, the top order was disgraceful, and shouldn't be swept under the carpet

Root was the sole reason we posted any scores in the winter let's be honest
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fair
Jack Torrance said:
Agree the chase was never on and I know people would have been quick to criticise the batting had we lost that test as well.

I was more annoyed that some of our best players missed the series because they were at the IPL which finished a month early but they’re now back playing white ball cricket for their counties.

Playing no spinner was disappointing though, they can’t keep using “Stokes wasn’t available” as an excuse for not playing a spinner
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Jack Torrance said:
Agree the chase was never on and I know people would have been quick to criticise the batting had we lost that test as well.

I was more annoyed that some of our best players missed the series because they were at the IPL which finished a month early but they’re now back playing white ball cricket for their counties.

Playing no spinner was disappointing though, they can’t keep using “Stokes wasn’t available” as an excuse for not playing a spinner
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dont get me started on that
 
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The Rat said:
I just listened to espn cric info podcast and I had to turn it off, couldt believe what I was hearing

England have a mediocre top 5 for sure but like 4 tests ago? I think? We were top of the test championship after winning on a flat one in India

we won on 2 flat pitches in Sri Lanka

we won in South Africa on flat pitches against an excellent attack

we won both series last summer

now I’m told we can’t bat on flat ones? We picked players to do so and they have done to a degree


now I’m hearing the likes of that idio George dobell saying it’s as bad as we have ever been.

we were awful against NZ and it’s not a great lineup sure

but I can’t believe the reception by the media, so arrogant they are.

I can imagine the match threads were tasty on here but I can’t be the only one thinking we aren’t as bad as people are making out?

we won a hell of a lot of games

it comes back to my same annoyance, when we win it’s never because we are good it’s because the opposition were awful

however if we lose then those are the games that really count and we are awful

dobell’s sentiment was that English cricket is a mess and we got lucky with stokes n archer, 2 non uk born cricketers, his words

it really bugged me listening to that, I’ve worked with him a few times and he’s an absolute arsehole who loves the sound of his own voice

so maybe I just need to vent!
Click to expand...
I agree totally, it wasn’t that long ago we were playing really well, modern day media both in cricket and football go over the top.

A bit of perspective needs putting into it, we not the best test side, but reaction lately been over the top we certainly not the worst side either.

Our depth in the bowling attack is still very good imo.
 
Wouldn't have described the SA attack as top class mind. Vern was past it, Radaba not on top form and Nortje didn't make much of an impact.

The rotation policy and playing a load of fairly inexperienced (in tests) young 'uns was always gonna be a bit of tester.
 
It probably has gone a bit hyperbole in some quarters but I think that the repetition of another batting collapse, poor shot selection and a heavy defeat has tipped some people over the edge.

It probably seems like Groundhog Day as although it’s our first home series defeat in 7 years, there has been a lot of heavy defeats and meek surrenders in tests home and away now for some time. Losing a home series had been long coming IMO but credit to New Zealand who are excellent side.

Not attempting to chase that total at Lords will have sharpened the pundits knives were England not to win at Edgbaston too.
 
This is sport. You win some and you lose some. For every winner there is a loser. Nobody wants to succeed on the pitch more than the players themselves. It matters to them far more than it does to fans, journalists or anyone else. Their business is to outwit each other, both batter v bowler and home team v away team. The fact that sometimes they get 100 and sometimes 0 should not be reason for criticism - its just a fact of life that goes with the job for which they benefit by selection or pay by deselection and ultimately with their success or failure in their careers. Surely that is enough.

I agree that criticism in the press and social media is often way over the top and achieves nothing. Journalists are just out to make money even - as in the case of the Robinson situation - they have to deliberately seek out dirt to do so and destroy careers at their peak. Don’t lets under estimate the damage done to morale by that episode. They will all still be reeling.
 
Even when we were winning we looked fragile imo. I’m afraid I always look to the Ashes and wish we could prepare teams to win those series above any other, and in 2019 we were fortunate to draw, only a freak of an innings and a poor umpires’ decision at a critical moment meant we won the Headingley game.

So to the winter, are we putting a team together to beat the Aussies?

Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc will be licking their lips watching how Burns deals with the short ball, how Sibley gets himself tied up because of his crazy stance at the crease, how Crawley can’t buy a run, how the captaincy is affecting Root’s batting. Pope is raw but reminds me of Bell, so all in all we have serious problems in the batting. And Australian pitches are ones where you need to be brave, have fast hands and be able to build an innings. They’ll target our best batters Root and Stokes and once they get into their heads the rest will fold.

Bowling? Except for 10-11 Anderson has never done well there and is now 38. Broad has the bottle but is a through the air type of bowler. You need bowlers who’ll hit the pitch hard, I think Stone could do well, Archer if he bends his back and Robinson looked really good in the first game. But we desperately need a spinner and ideally two or three, and they need to be playing and have the confidence of their captain.

Im afraid I’m not confident.
 

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