Criticism over the top?
- Thread starter The Rat
- Start date
FC United of Manchester
Striker
We're definitely in a period of transition, which happens to all teams, we've had to completely change our top order batting and will now need to do the same with our bowling given Anderson & Broad are in the twilight of their careers.
Burns, Sibley & Crawley at the top of the order doesn't inspire loads of confidence but it's not as though there are stand out players waiting to take their places. It is what it is and I think we need to stick with them and give them more time.
Test cricket has changed massively in the last decade, not only with the emergence of the slogfests of T20. International cricket is now very much a year round sport and the top players consequently play much less domestic cricket, the days when we had top internationals playing in the county championship on a regular basis are long gone and that must mean it takes players longer to acclimatise to the standard when they step up.
We're in a cycle of change and can only pick the best we've got, we can't transform them overnight to international cricketers and it's not always their fault if their best isn't what we want. By the end of the India & Ashes series then they will hopefully be better tuned in to test match cricket once again and we can analyse then.
Burns, Sibley & Crawley at the top of the order doesn't inspire loads of confidence but it's not as though there are stand out players waiting to take their places. It is what it is and I think we need to stick with them and give them more time.
Test cricket has changed massively in the last decade, not only with the emergence of the slogfests of T20. International cricket is now very much a year round sport and the top players consequently play much less domestic cricket, the days when we had top internationals playing in the county championship on a regular basis are long gone and that must mean it takes players longer to acclimatise to the standard when they step up.
We're in a cycle of change and can only pick the best we've got, we can't transform them overnight to international cricketers and it's not always their fault if their best isn't what we want. By the end of the India & Ashes series then they will hopefully be better tuned in to test match cricket once again and we can analyse then.
I think the problem is that we've introduced a number of batsmen over the last few years and none of them have nailed down a position (Sibley, Burns, Crawley, Lawrence, Westley Bracey) which has somewhat been papered over by great knocks by the more established players, e.g. Root in Sri Lanka and first test Vs India. There's been a combination of players retiring (Cook) and players whose form has fallen off a cliff (Bairstow, Moeen) and what looks like the best of the rest don't look good enough.
So, yeah, we have had good results for a long time but I feel like you could see this coming as performances have declined and wins have more and more relied on superb individual performances rather than a good team performance.
So, yeah, we have had good results for a long time but I feel like you could see this coming as performances have declined and wins have more and more relied on superb individual performances rather than a good team performance.
we’ve made a lot of 400 plus first innings scores before this little run
I’m not saying we don’t have issues
but there’s been a rewriting of history with people pretending the last 18 months hadn’t happened
nah the standard of pace bowling around the world is absolutely top notch, as hard as it’s ever been
almost every side is absolutely blessed
In general I agree.
We have been very good at home, and average away. Like virtually all test teams
The last couple of weeks have been dreadful. Dreadful planning, dreadful application. And there are a number of players that have a lot of convincing to do
We have been very good at home, and average away. Like virtually all test teams
The last couple of weeks have been dreadful. Dreadful planning, dreadful application. And there are a number of players that have a lot of convincing to do
GordonMuchallNo1Fan
Striker
we won't be once jimmy and broad pack in
has archer really done the business yet?
wood is good but is he reliable with injuries?
FC United of Manchester
Striker
The perceived standard of bowling is directly influenced by the standard of batting. When you have test match batsmen brought up on a diet of T20 and ODI then they will give their wickets away easier, making it easier for the bowlers.
I don’t think the current crop of international bowlers (of all countries) are any better than went before them, more that the batsmen are flattering them.
ManBearPig82
Reserve Squad
Seam bowling is in a good position for the next year I'd say and I don't think the lack of a spinner had any bearing on these 2 tests but the Batting lineup needs decisions to be made. We need to find a 2,3 and 6 and the question will be who do we go with. Keep with the young batsmen who are playing or go back to someone who has tried and failed before (Bairstow/Malan/Vince).
2 - I'd give Hameed a go.
3 - I'd go back to Malan.
6 - I'd give Pope longer.
2 - I'd give Hameed a go.
3 - I'd go back to Malan.
6 - I'd give Pope longer.
dony agree at all, that’s nonsense sorry
they’re exceptional
best NZ attack of all time for starters
FC United of Manchester
Striker
Better than Hadlee, Cairns, Chatfield...?
Not for me mate.
smoker
Striker
We went for years without scoring 400+ in any innings under Moores and Bayliss. I would bet we've got the lowest average first innings score of the top five or six teams.
Malan did well in Australia last time and is better suited to those conditions.
Last edited:
Twisted
Striker
in real life I'm quiet and placid
how the hell has this crazy news flown under the radar?
brandon
Striker
I f*cking HATE that argument, it doesn’t just apply to cricket either.
As for ‘lucky’, what about the luck we had with Taylor? One of the most gifted and pleasing on the eye home-grown batsmen we’ve had in decades forced to retire because of a one in a million heart condition.
I think that’s a tad dramatic for Taylor. I really liked the lad, and think he would have done well, but you’re pushing his ability a bit
brandon
Striker
It was in keeping with the ‘tactics’ of Dobell in the OP’s point then…
I know but why are you mentioning that?
I am on about under Silverwood with these batsmna, we have passed 400 a lod
absolutely no interest in what happened under Moores like
Dobell's statement that he kept saying, unchallenged, is that England got lucky, they wouldn\t have won the world cup without archer
I mean whats he basing that on?
We were number 1 in the world for a couple of years before he played for us
how the hell has this crazy news flown under the radar?
haha aye, probably why I come across mad on here, say the things I wish I had the confidence to say in real life
well wouldnt wanna say everything!
I'd play Malan in Oz, or I would consider him
He could play against India in theory if they just wanna take the pressure off one of the younger players
I have championed Malan for a while, mainly for the ashes, but he averages under 30 in 15 tests. I think in Oz and SA he could bat well, not sure about England.
I am convinced Crawley will have a long future, but you dont wanna ruin him too early if out of form
I really think that Indian series on those pitches has set these lads back
No coincidence for me that Burns missed out on the last 4 and looks the most solid again
Last edited:
smoker
Striker
The same batsmen give or take 1 or 2 played for Bayliss. Why are previous performances irrelevant? I think the biggest upturn came with Sibley operating as a proper opener as he protects Root from the new ball. If he doesn't stay in we struggle. They need another grinder at three.
Voice of fair play
Striker
Why does a ‘ proper opener’ or 3 have to be grinder?
We need a good top 3 full stop, not sure what this obsession is with grinders, as if that is a solution to our problems.
It isn’t, if we did not have grinders in the top order, we may have been able to go for a win in the first test, which although unlikely was possible after that declaration, but with Sibley there it was never on.
I get what your saying we need to protect Root from getting exposed to the new ball, totally get that, but it is possible to stay at the crease and still score runs quicker than the likes of Sibley.
It doesn’t have to be too quick or too much the other way, as again I know what you were saying when Bayliss was in charge and for example opening with Roy was a ridiculous decision, possibly one of the worst decisions taken by England in recent years.
But there is a balance to be had as with anything and nothing wrong like looking to rotate strike etc, and be positive.
There seems to be this opinion that really good test teams need grinders to put the opposition down, but the two best teams in history by a country mile, West Indies and Australia were positive teams.
There seems to this opinion now, that we solely need openers to just occupy the crease as if scoring runs is secondary, it’s not there is a balance to be had and if we can have openers who cannot just grind but score runs at a balanced pace surely that’s better than just grinders!
Sibley is 15 runs away from 1,000 in tests. At the current rate, he will be the 10th slowest scoring player in history* in an era where scoring rates are high. Slower players will include Tavare, Brearley and Gillespie
*strike rates have only been calculated since the mid 70s I think
*strike rates have only been calculated since the mid 70s I think
smoker
Striker
Where are you going to find these amazing openers and number 3, equally gifted in attack and defence? There are promising young players in CC but nobody breaking the door down for selection. We have talented batsmen at 4 and 5, and perhaps Lawrence/Pope at six and Buttler at seven, but they aren't able to show their ability as they are still exposed regularly to the new ball. On the occasions we have made 400+ it's because they've been protected by the openers 'taking the leather off the ball'.
If we wanted to chase that declaration (which would have been a fools errand with the team we selected) we could have opened with middle order batsmen.
Who do you play instead?
Geoff Marsh 33.19
Mark Taylor 43.50
They batted through the day at Nottingham in 1989.
These are career S/Rs, I'd expect them to be lower in England.
Last edited:
