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I had considered a few things,Essex boy. Ironic that you can claim that "the Middlesex league is arguably the strongest league in the UK" without producing evidence other than that a lot of people live there.Quite a sweeping statement if you consider a few things. Why do South Northumberland dominate the NEPL every season and have done for years if it is so competitive? If it was as you describe why don't Northern Counties dominate county cricket? The ECB national club competition has produced as many southern finalists as it has northern in the last 10 years or so. The Middlesex cricket league is arguably the strongest league in the UK mainly because it covers off London. I dare suggest northern clubs produce better seamers but southern clubs produce better batters/spinners a bit similar to county cricket.
Inner cities down South don't have the facilities to play cricket (ie, lack of room and green belt area) whereas private schools do. A lot of cricket is only taught and played in private schools down south hence why a lot of players are from privately educated schools. The school I went to was private and produced James Foster and Nasser Hussain but more recently the likes of Nick Browne, Ravi Bopara, Jamie Porter et al in the essex set up were plucked from club cricket and did not attend private school. More schemes are now in place to teach cricket in inner city state schools down south.
I had considered a few things,Essex boy. Ironic that you can claim that "the Middlesex league is arguably the strongest league in the UK" without producing evidence other than that a lot of people live there.
South North have certainly won more national competitions than any other club side and,whilst being a very successful side in the NEPL, they certainly haven't dominated it. Won it less than 50% in the last decade or so and rarely walked away with it. That's my argument as to why Northern cricket,using NEPL as the exemplar, is more competitive than that the Southern counterparts. Lack of state school's cricket is common throughout the country and certainly there are less private schools in the North. Hence the necessity for a strong,structured pyramid league system where youngsters can develop.
Admittedly I don't know anything about the Essex pyramid system but that county certainly seem to develop youngsters through their system. Appears to be the exception rather than the rule for the South though.
Prior to Durham’s demotion, we had the longest unbroken run in Division One of any other county, it’s impossible to say what would have happened in the intervening years had we not been Graves’d BUT following our maiden Championship win in 2008, a Northern* county won the title 8 years running before Middlesex broke the stranglehold with that infamous last day win over Yorkshire.
It’s also worth remembering that in the period from the 2005 Ashes right up until that 2016 demotion, Durham produced more Test Cricketers for England than any other county except for Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire. Which is, another nod to the strength of cricket and cricketers in the North.
I’m also absolutely certain, it’s another reason why Yorkshire haven’t won it more than they have. Especially that 2016 campaign where Middlesex took it, take 3/4 of the best players out of any county staff and they’ll struggle massively. You just have to look at how much Surrey are struggling this year without the Curran lads to see that.
In terms of your statement, I’m pretty sure the evidence suggests that Northern Counties DO and have dominated county cricket for a substantial period of time now.
*Nottinghamshire and Warwickshire won it once each and granted, are in the midlands, but in any North/South split, they’d be in the Northern group.
ECB National Club Cricket Championship Winners
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Middlesex have had 4 finalists in the last 10 years in the ECB national club cup across three different clubs. South North have won the NEPL 13 times in the last 20 years. That is not competitive and resembles Madrid/Barcelona in the Spanish league. South North would not dominate the Middlesex league like they do the NEPL.
My point being is that there are strong counties down south and up north similar to how there are strong clubs like South North in the South. As an example the strongest club side down South over the last 10 years is Ealing which is where Ned Eckersley originates from.
Apologies South North have won the NEPL 12 times in the last 17 years
Fair enough, I wasn’t looking to denigrate the south - just to highlight how strong the north has been.My point being is that there are strong counties down south and up north similar to how there are strong clubs like South North in the South. As an example the strongest club side down South over the last 10 years is Ealing which is where Ned Eckersley originates from.
Apologies South North have won the NEPL 12 times in the last 17 years
They are an anachronism, fueled by money, that hoovers up talent based on the aforementioned spending power and the fact that certain types of parents would rather their sons and daughters get a very limited chance to play for a junior team, rather than let them play at a club more local to them.Apologies South North have won the NEPL 12 times in the last 17 years
I was merely expressing an opinion, Essex boy, from regularly watching NEPL and in no way intending to be dogmatic. I'm sure there are strong clubs down South,never denied it but my argumemt is the strong league structure in the North proves a good nursery for producng CC and ultimately test players. It doesn't appear so prevalent down South apart from Essex. Merely an impression. I certainly wouldn't dogmatically state that South North wouldn't be equally successful in the Middlesex league,I'd need to watch both regularly.
Fair enough, I wasn’t looking to denigrate the south - just to highlight how strong the north has been.
I’m not keen on using the National Cup as a guide as to how strong/weak club sides/leagues are either - I can’t remember the NE sides being massively bothered about it. I do remember a couple of final appearances for CLS but on the whole it seems to have gone largely under the radar.
I bow to your superior knowledge. Unfortunately I'm not in the position to watch both the NEPL and the Middlesex leagues to be able to make that call. South North are very strong but I'd disagree that it equates to it being a closed shop. I have watched NEPL cricket over several years.The big super clubs do tend to care about it both North and South more so as they get to the latter stages. I would not disagree that there are strong northern leagues no more than there are strong southern leagues. My point about South North is there are 4 or 5 clubs of their equivalent in the Middlesex league so its not a closed shop who wins every year. Any strong club side is basically ex pros and youngsters playing county 2nds
I bow to your superior knowledge. Unfortunately I'm not in the position to watch both the NEPL and the Middlesex leagues to be able to make that call. South North are very strong but I'd disagree that it equates to it being a closed shop. I have watched NEPL cricket over several years.
The last two times I saw South North play they lost on both occasions - to Whitburn, at Whitburn.I bow to your superior knowledge. Unfortunately I'm not in the position to watch both the NEPL and the Middlesex leagues to be able to make that call. South North are very strong but I'd disagree that it equates to it being a closed shop. I have watched NEPL cricket over several years.
more to be pitied than anything. Nearly men at the highest level but can't appreciate the aftermath camaraderie and chat.The last two times I saw South North play they lost on both occasions - to Whitburn, at Whitburn.
Their reaction when they lost the first time was disgraceful - slagging off Whitburn's pitch despite heroic efforts from the ground-staff to get the game played when most other teams that weekend were rained off. Their skipper made some disgusting comments on social media, calling the ground a 'sh!thole''. Basically acting like a spoilt brat because they lost.
He was forced by the league to apologise in writing but it was mealy-mouthed at best.
On the second occasion, most of the team cleared off straight after the game - not staying for the traditional drink in the bar and a bit crack on with the opposition.
They are an entitled, arrogant bunch with ideas way above their station - not the best example by which to judge North-East cricket.
Plenty of that kind in the South too! Sad.more to be pitied than anything. Nearly men at the highest level but can't appreciate the aftermath camaraderie and chat.
I think to be fair I'd prefer to side with the opinions of teams who know the South North lot well. As for those of ethnic mix,certainly in this area, they tend to form their own team of a particular culture. Generally they don't tend to socialise afterwards which is unfortunate as it tends to allow on field grievances to fester.I think to be fair in terms of not staying for a beer afterwards, southern clubs are heavily dominated by people of mixed ethnic backgrounds whose culture isn't necessarily a drinking one. Secondly, you may find a lot of players at South North as an example are playing a lot of other cricket during the week such as minor counties so want to get home to see families etc
Did Ealing not win the Middlesex premier league for about 8 or 9 years running in the nouhgties. I know they won it for at least 3 years running.The big super clubs do tend to care about it both North and South more so as they get to the latter stages. I would not disagree that there are strong northern leagues no more than there are strong southern leagues. My point about South North is there are 4 or 5 clubs of their equivalent in the Middlesex league so its not a closed shop who wins every year. Any strong club side is basically ex pros and youngsters playing county 2nds
Did Ealing not win the Middlesex premier league for about 8 or 9 years running in the nouhgties. I know they won it for at least 3 years running.
No idea on the different structures only thing I can think is geographally the North East Premier league covers a huge area covering Northumberland Durham and until recently parts of North Yorkshire.Indeed they did but over the last 10 years, 8 separate winners including one of those who has been relegated. I am curious as to why the NEPL have a 12 team premier league but most other ECB premier leagues only have 10 sides (or at last that is the case down South). Some of the games in the 10 team leagues are complete mismatches in terms of top vs bottom so not sure how that works in a 12 team league