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*~*~* Sunderland v Mansfield Town match thread *~*~*

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rentaghost said:
You are wrong. I think everyone would accept there's room for improvement but that shoudn't lead to huge criticism of the manager, in fact belittling and abuse of a manager that has been getting really good league results for the whole calendar year.
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Wrong about what? Where do you draw the line between constructive criticism and abuse? Genuine question as I think it's an important distinction.

I think Phil Parkinson is a very very poor league one manager. There are a few factors that can influence your opinion. In his favour, he seems to have us defensively sound and the main measurement of success, match results, suggests he is doing an ok job given our league position etc.. but that's just surface deep analysis.. and that's where the positives end.

His transfer business has been mostly atrocious. His subs are 9 times out of 10 the wrong subs. His team selections are baffling sometimes , he seems unable to alter his view of a player despite the player having bad game after bad game. He is too reluctant to change anything, he has Graham grigg and O'Brien on the bench every week, what is the point? Have one of them, but not all 3. He simply refuses to bring diamond, embleton, and Neil into the squad, which would a) make us more dynamic and offer something different like running with the ball in midfield and forward passing b) increase their value c) make them better players d) show the other u23s that working hard will get you a chance and e) confirm if they are worth the effort, and if not, move them on. He plays players constantly in wrong positions, instead of changing the shape to suit our players. He plays 2 defensive midfielders that can't pass the ball forwards against teams we should be aiming to attack and beat comfortably. He is too stubborn, he is a regressive footballing figure, his team is awful to watch and let's be honest, we have had a good stroke of luck this season with sending offs and pennas, in games where we haven't played well at all. He somehow thinks that percevering with Dobson and power as a midfield partnership is somehow, all of a sudden, going to 'work' even though we've had a season and a bit of it clearly not working, it shows he is reluctant to accept it hasn't worked, or not smart enough to see it.

But we are 6th in the league so none of the above matters
 

tunstallhill said:
Wrong about what? Where do you draw the line between constructive criticism and abuse? Genuine question as I think it's an important distinction.

I think Phil Parkinson is a very very poor league one manager. There are a few factors that can influence your opinion. In his favour, he seems to have us defensively sound and the main measurement of success, match results, suggests he is doing an ok job given our league position etc.. but that's just surface deep analysis.. and that's where the positives end.

His transfer business has been mostly atrocious. His subs are 9 times out of 10 the wrong subs. His team selections are baffling sometimes , he seems unable to alter his view of a player despite the player having bad game after bad game. He is too reluctant to change anything, he has Graham grigg and O'Brien on the bench every week, what is the point? Have one of them, but not all 3. He simply refuses to bring diamond, embleton, and Neil into the squad, which would a) make us more dynamic and offer something different like running with the ball in midfield and forward passing b) increase their value c) make them better players d) show the other u23s that working hard will get you a chance and e) confirm if they are worth the effort, and if not, move them on. He plays players constantly in wrong positions, instead of changing the shape to suit our players. He plays 2 defensive midfielders that can't pass the ball forwards against teams we should be aiming to attack and beat comfortably. He is too stubborn, he is a regressive footballing figure, his team is awful to watch and let's be honest, we have had a good stroke of luck this season with sending offs and pennas, in games where we haven't played well at all. He somehow thinks that percevering with Dobson and power as a midfield partnership is somehow, all of a sudden, going to 'work' even though we've had a season and a bit of it clearly not working, it shows he is reluctant to accept it hasn't worked, or not smart enough to see it.

But we are 6th in the league so none of the above matters
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Unbelievable. A very, very, very poor League 1 manager who has just happened to win promotion from that league 3 times and is currently on a run of 47 points from 24 games which would guarantee a 4th if continued You describe that as 'surface deep' :lol: and the things that really matter as being not playing young players enough in the first 10 games and persisting with Dobson and Power which in fact he has discarded that partnership in the league games anyway.
He has built this team on the back of painstaking work on defensive structure, developed a 3 at the back overlapping centre back system which is extremely effective but people would rather focus on the negatives that do exist at the top end of the pitch. Negatives that we still manage to overcome because of the superb work he has done on defensive structure.
The young players is a point but did Diamond do enough in his game at Swindon (or Charlton) to force his way into a team that was unbeaten at the time? He did play and was poor and Embleton hasn't even been available for selection until now. Its a long season results will fluctuate and when injuries and suspensions kick in they will get a chance.
 
rentaghost said:
Unbelievable. A very, very, very poor League 1 manager who has just happened to win promotion from that league 3 times and is currently on a run of 47 points from 24 games which would guarantee a 4th if continued You describe that as 'surface deep' :lol: and the things that really matter as being not playing young players enough in the first 10 games and persisting with Dobson and Power which in fact he has discarded that partnership in the league games anyway.
He has built this team on the back of painstaking work on defensive structure, developed a 3 at the back overlapping centre back system which is extremely effective but people would rather focus on the negatives that do exist at the top end of the pitch. Negatives that we still manage to overcome because of the superb work he has done on defensive structure.
The young players is a point but did Diamond do enough in his game at Swindon (or Charlton) to force his way into a team that was unbeaten at the time? He did play and was poor and Embleton hasn't even been available for selection until now. Its a long season results will fluctuate and when injuries and suspensions kick in they will get a chance.
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Doesn't really matter what he did before he arrived, now that he has been here a year. We are no further forward than when he arrived. He finds it impossible to spot the weaknesses in the team and improve them (other than the defence) and therefore he is a poor manager. The game isn't just played by defenders. He can't organise a midfield or an attacking strategy which is more than 50% of his job. If diamond hasn't done enough to force himself into that team, what had grigg, Graham, O'Brien, Dobson and power done to deserve Thier spots in the team?
 
tunstallhill said:
Doesn't really matter what he did before he arrived, now that he has been here a year. We are no further forward than when he arrived. He finds it impossible to spot the weaknesses in the team and improve them (other than the defence) and therefore he is a poor manager. The game isn't just played by defenders. He can't organise a midfield or an attacking strategy which is more than 50% of his job. If diamond hasn't done enough to force himself into that team, what had grigg, Graham, O'Brien, Dobson and power done to deserve Their spots in the team?
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His job is results based. 47 points from the last 24 games and 2.1 PPG this season which would give us 97 points. Thats his job and hes doing it well. Those players don't have spots in the team. Selection issues are there for people to debate, that's fair enough. Hes got stuff wrong and his signings (the most valid point against him IMO) have been poor - however my issue isn't that points shouldn't be debated more that the criticism is massively OTT given the results in the league that we are getting.
 
Zak's Dad said:
That IS a small positive about the result.
Getting knock out 'nice and early' brings an early and full spotlight on PP and league results.
There's only one aim this season - promotion.

And here we are just out of October and all eyes will be on the league performances and the league results.

This early exit brings us one match closer to that spineless clown getting sacked.
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Haway man, stop sitting the fence with your opinion of PP ...
 
rentaghost said:
His job is results based. 47 points from the last 24 games and 2.1 PPG this season which would give us 97 points. Thats his job and hes doing it well. Those players don't have spots in the team. Selection issues are there for people to debate, that's fair enough. Hes got stuff wrong and his signings (the most valid point against him IMO) have been poor - however my issue isn't that points shouldn't be debated more that the criticism is massively OTT given the results in the league that we are getting.
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Correct. However I'd argue, that to get better , log term results (i.e getting back to the prem) scraping promotion with this team will be counter productive. We will be back in L1 at square one this time in 2 years. Where as a long term plan, accepting promotion may not be achieved this season, but building something sustainable, and going up next season with a young, progressive, developing squad that only needs additions rather than overhauling would get us to then prem quicker. Cos this squad is f***ing awful in league one so what's the point
 
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tunstallhill said:
Correct. However I'd argue, that to get better , log term results (i.e getting back to the prem) scraping promotion with this team will be counter productive. We will be back in L1 at square one this time in 2 years. Where as a long term plan, accepting promotion may not be achieved this season, but building something sustainable, and going up next season with a young, progressive, developing squad that only needs additions rather than overhauling. Cos this squad is f***ing awful in league one so what's the point
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To get back to the prem we would need a lot of investment and an inevitable takeover or two even. Parkinson won't be manager of SAFC in the long future but is a good manager while we are stuck in our current situation. I agree we can improve the current squad with more involvement of one or two younger players but I don't agree that its 'utterly outrageous'or a disgrace that they haven't been involved much 10 games into a 26 game season where we have 21 points.
 
rentaghost said:
His job is results based. 47 points from the last 24 games and 2.1 PPG this season which would give us 97 points. Thats his job and hes doing it well. Those players don't have spots in the team. Selection issues are there for people to debate, that's fair enough. Hes got stuff wrong and his signings (the most valid point against him IMO) have been poor - however my issue isn't that points shouldn't be debated more that the criticism is massively OTT given the results in the league that we are getting.
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All jobs are result based. But some jobs come with extra pressures. You said earlier his record is equal to a 4th place finish over a season. In the Third Division that might be good for most clubs. But not Sunderland. And PPG this season is meaningless while 6th in division. By definition 97 points still wont be good enough if others above maintain the same PPG as Sunderland
 
Benjamin said:
All jobs are result based. But some jobs come with extra pressures. You said earlier his record is equal to a 4th place finish over a season. In the Third Division that might be good for most clubs. But not Sunderland. And PPG this season is meaningless while 6th in division. By definition 97 points still wont be good enough if others above maintain the same PPG as Sunderland
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No I didn't mate.

I said his record this season would get 97 points and win the league almost always.

His record in all of 2020 over the last 24 games would get 90 points and almost always get automatic.

His record in the last 24 games should lead you to expect our points ratio to continue this season more so than other clubs - some clubs always start well but cant sustain it.
 
Less than 12 hours to work. Only work in the hospital loads of Mansfield Town fans, going to get some stick tomorrow. What’s the best excuse... we’re s**t
 
rentaghost said:
His job is results based. 47 points from the last 24 games and 2.1 PPG this season which would give us 97 points. Thats his job and hes doing it well. Those players don't have spots in the team. Selection issues are there for people to debate, that's fair enough. Hes got stuff wrong and his signings (the most valid point against him IMO) have been poor - however my issue isn't that points shouldn't be debated more that the criticism is massively OTT given the results in the league that we are getting.
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You are
Missing the main point though aren’t you ?
 
rentaghost said:
That he wont play the kids and his football is dull while getting 47 points from the last 24 games and 2.1 PPG this season which would give us 97 points? maybe I am.
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He’s a complete utter twat of a dinosaur that has lost the majority (me included ) of the fan base . When you lose the fans up here your finished . Good riddance to him .
And hopefully the little fat Oxford yoda fucks off with him and his swarmy spive mate
 
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rentaghost said:
Unbelievable. A very, very, very poor League 1 manager who has just happened to win promotion from that league 3 times and is currently on a run of 47 points from 24 games which would guarantee a 4th if continued You describe that as 'surface deep' :lol: and the things that really matter as being not playing young players enough in the first 10 games and persisting with Dobson and Power which in fact he has discarded that partnership in the league games anyway.
He has built this team on the back of painstaking work on defensive structure, developed a 3 at the back overlapping centre back system which is extremely effective but people would rather focus on the negatives that do exist at the top end of the pitch. Negatives that we still manage to overcome because of the superb work he has done on defensive structure.
The young players is a point but did Diamond do enough in his game at Swindon (or Charlton) to force his way into a team that was unbeaten at the time? He did play and was poor and Embleton hasn't even been available for selection until now. Its a long season results will fluctuate and when injuries and suspensions kick in they will get a chance.
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Twice;-)
 
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