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June to July 2020 - NUFC

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Bears Beets said:
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Mags creaming themselves over this. Couple of fancy step overs and he ends up having to go back.

we won this game 1-0 as well.
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Is there any counter argument? I'm glad Rodwell was made to look a mug :lol: , I'm on the Mag's side here.
 
The Fish said:
I don't get this, every manager benefits from luck on occasion, but when the fundamentals are sound, when the system is sound, they're less reliant on it. Bruce has been reliant on good fortune.
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The system was far from sound under Benitez. It's a fallacy.

The Fish said:
Benitez doesn't prefer flair players, this is undeniable, but he's been extremely successful in his career and built, at Newcastle, the foundations to allow us to play with more dynamism up front.
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He built no foundations to allow us to do anything. We went backwards.

The Fish said:
There were plenty of games where we were set up to get all three points, predicated on a solid defence.
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Plenty?
I'd say there were very few games where we were set up to get 3 points. His mindset was generally setting up not to lose, first and foremost, rather than an attitude of setting up to go out and take the game to the opposition.

The Fish said:
Once your defensive unit is cohesive and reliable, you can afford more freedom to your attackers. The best form of defence isn't attack, it's good defending.
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Of course you need good defending. You also need a good midfield. The point is, when you have the makings (which we had) to have a go with all that in place, you should take that opportunity.
Granted, we may not have finished any higher but the football would've been a whole lot more enjoyable. And let's face it, we don't watch football to amaze ourselves on how 4 or 5 at the back can manage to frustrate an onslaught from the opposition.


The Fish said:
That's why terrific attacking sides with a poor defence end up on the receiving end of sound beatings.
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I agree in a way but here's the situation from my side. I'd sooner struggle with relegation by having a go than struggle with relegation whilst setting up to simply frustrate teams with defensive drilling and reliance of luck.


The Fish said:
We are 20th in the league for creating chances (4th in the league for allowing them). The football has, at times, been a better watch under Bruce for the neutral, I grant you. But how much of that is down to Saint-Maximin because, frankly, the rest of the team aren't getting me out my seat.
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The saint gets a lot of plaudits and rightly so...but we are not a one man team.
However, it's the likes of the saint that shows Bruce is not afraid of putting out flair players. Benitez would've likely destroyed the saint in short order by giving him his orders of, defend first and only attack when you know you can defend mistakes made on the front foot.....kind of thing.

The Fish said:
There were times under Benitez where we played some lovely stuff, chiefly after Almiron was bought and we had a player who could carry the ball at pace.
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I agree, we did play some decent football towards the end of the season under Benitez.
We did the same both times in January when we made a few loan signings.
We did it because Benitez had little choice but to abandon his defend first mindset in favour of taking the game to the opposition, which is why we got out of relegation trouble, both times.

Kenedy coming in (first time) on loan forced Benitez' hand to play a more attacking system and it worked, because it reignited the rest of the team in a positive manner.

Almiron and Rondon, plus Dubravka helped us escape relegation by mixing it up and got Benitez out of trouble, once again.
This is no genius manager, it was a manager that rode his luck.

Any manager can set a team up as defensive as Rafa did and keep a scoreline down to a minimum.
It's no good doing that if you stifle your attacking potential.
The problem Rafa had was, he was a control freak and didn't want to admit his defensive nonsense wasn't working in terms of gaining points....until the nitty gritty part of the season was upon him where the league does not lie and we were scrapping both times at the bottom.




The Fish said:
Benitez delivered automatic promotion, a top 10 finish and a midtable finish. He got the team playing from a sound footing and was adding some quality to our attack. Bruce has inherited a good defence and knackered it, in less than a season.
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Anyone could've delivered automatic promotion with that squad. Seriously, they could.
He still made it hard for himself even then by being negative at times and also destroying the potential Mitrovic had.


The Fish said:
I'd rather have a good manager who's rebuilding, than a bang average manager who's undoing the good work.
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Benitez didn't rebuild. He went backwards.
The Fish said:
I think the fans who are bothered about Bruce being an ex-Sunderland manager are not worth worrying about.
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I don't worry about them but there's enough of them about.


The Fish said:
It's a sport played by elite athletes, so yes, they eat better and gone are the halftime pies and cigarettes. Good.
Are there more injuries or are the players just taken better care of?
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There are more injuries and for longer.


The Fish said:
You here tales of players who broke a bone and carried on playing, as if that improves the quality of the football. It's nonsense.
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I'm not talking about broken bones. I'm talking about all kinds of niggles and knocks that many players seem to turn into long term trauma, it seems.



The Fish said:
And with the scientific mumbo-jumbo has come better football. Football played at a faster pace, with more entertainment on show.
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Better football?
It depends on what's construed as, better football, because I enjoyed the football of years ago compared to this.
This is all about nonsense chit chat for pundits to scientifically analyse what is a simple game.
The skill level overall is far inferior to what it was years ago.
It's only the odd few players that stand out in terms of real skill. The rest are merely run of the mill racehorses.

The Fish said:
Worldies now aren't just someone leathering it from 30yds. Football is better now than it's ever been.
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So what exactly are worldied now compared to years ago?


The Fish said:
Brunley haven't the players to go to Man City and play on the front foot, they'll be annihilated. Hell, Burnley can't go to Everton, or Wolves and play on the front foot. If they tried to play the ball around their players' limited ability would see them surrender possession cheaply, get caught out of position too often and leave their limited defenders exposed. So they play to their strengths. Packed, organised defence, long balls up to powerful forwards. It works.
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Nobody is asking to go to places like Man City and go on the front foot all game. But don't go and play on the back foot until you give them the spoils, only to try and reclaim some of it and then get royally stuffed when you've already put the opposition on a full throttle confidence trip..


The Fish said:
If it was purely hard work and simple tactics then Burnley and Newcastle would top the table. Even then I'm doing a disservice to Burnley and Newcastle.
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No. It's down to a bit more than just that. It's down to better players playing them.
 
Bears Beets said:
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Mags creaming themselves over this. Couple of fancy step overs and he ends up having to go back.

we won this game 1-0 as well.
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The whopper who posted it was likely last pick. Rodwell is in a good position to defend, whichever way he goes. Delay-Deny-Deflect.
 
AndyH said:
Is not that the same thing?
Surely if you don't like it when we when then you would prefer it if we lost.
I agree for some there is a massive reluctance to congratulate and give credit it to Bruce when we win but I can honestly say I don't know a single person that doesn't like it when we win.
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No it’s separate. I’m not saying people are actively wanting us to get beat, but they do know that every point gained makes them look increasingly stupid. Like I say, Bruce has already doubled the points tally many Of these ‘experts’ predicted.
What my point has always been is that it’s perfectly OK to put up your hands and say, “fair play, I was wrong and he’s doing a good job”.
However we’re in a ridiculous situation where people now use everything from Stats to jargon to try and justify just how much they have been proved wrong.
I was underwhelmed by the Bruce appt but I’m delighted for him and of course the club that he’s doing a good job
 
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