Fascinating old SAFC story as told by my Nana

[Ryhope_Scalliwag]

On 7th October, a train arrived at Ryhope Station, met by Charles, his family, and a team of servants. The visit was completely unannounced and kept secret from public knowledge. Staff in service were sworn to secrecy.

If I remember correctly, Victoria bought a football card off Sammy the Chin in the top club, which was promptly won by...

*checks notes*

...Sammy the Chin.

 

[gluepot]

Shared this story with a mate - he is a bit of a history buff and fan of the royal family. He has provided the following link to Queen Victoria's journal for that day.

You must be logged on to see external links

So, she either fabricated her journal entry as the whole episode was "top secret" or it didn't happen.

I'd love it if it were true...

Must have been fabricated. Tea at Mr McIntosh?? No way. I mean, did she mention what really went on with John Brown (The Big Yin)? Not to mention Abdul. Juast covering her tracks, same as Andrew went to Pizza Express

 

[The Hesford Diet]

And just 90 years later, her chant of "Seats! Seats! Seats! Seats!" caught on in the Roker wing of the Main Stand.

 

[gluepot]

Just to clarify, my lovely Nana was born in 1894. She also worked in service at some point for the Thompson family, of Shipyard fame. They were all MLFs. You can check all this too, Mr Arcland . I have the census records and Sunderland Antiquarian records to prove it.

Between about 1920 and 1960, Nana lived in Association Road which was right next to Roker Park Clock Stand (it is still there, Association Road, not the Clock Stand). Nana had many tales to tell. I remember she said there was only ever one policeman on duty for match days, and he always parked his bike in her backyard!! She said the noise when the Lads scored was incredible, and once when cooking a pan of peas, they all jumped out of the pan and onto the floor as the ball hit the net (so it was mushy peas for tea that night).

She said she knew some of the players and staff. When I was a young boy she used to buy me Charlie Buchan's Football Monthly. She used to tell me all about the great Charlie Buchan in fact she told me she was a quite friendly with him. Anyway Mr Arcland has now cast doubts in my mind, I really did believe all my my Nana told me. Now maybe I'm thinking she may have been exaggerating a bit (not lying though - she wouldn't do that, apart from when she said she knew Peter Piper of Pickled Pepper fame).

So with Mr Arcland's "friend's" revelation - which I dispute of course, especially as I have since read that Princess Beatrice destroyed all the Victoria diaries before Lord Esher got his hands on them - I suppose I may have to acknowledge that parts of the story I was told may not have been entirely accurate. However, I I will personally continue to believe that Queen Victoria and the Prince of Wales did visit Roker Park and I am sure she would have preferred a Pukka Pie to one of Mr MacIntosh's cucumber sandwiches.

No offence taken Mr Arcland.

 

[BumbleBee]

This is a story told to me by my grandmother, whose mother worked in domestic service for the Marquess of Londonderry.

The Marquess of Londonderry (Charles) was a leading politician, aristocrat, local colliery owner, and the owner of Seaham Hall. It was he who officially opened Roker Park on the 10th September 1898.

He associated with royalty, being a contemporary and close friend of the Prince of Wales (Albert).

In the 1890s, football was becoming our national game. Being very proud of Sunderland's new ground, Charles invited his friend Albert (who he knew had recently attended a match at Kennington Oval) to attend a match. Albert agreed to attend the match between Sunderland and West Bromwich Albion to be played on 8th October 1898, but on the clear understanding that it would be a strictly unofficial and private visit.

In late September, the Prince of Wales went to Balmoral to enjoy some hunting and fishing and whilst there, he discovered that the brother of the "gillie" (whose name was Jimmy Wilson) was a Sunderland player (Hughie Wilson). Jimmy had never seen Hughie playing in any football match, so Albert insisted that Jimmy accompanied him to Roker Park. Jimmy was a firm favourite of Queen Victoria who was also holidaying at Balmoral. Apparently, Queen Victoria showed some interest in attending the match, partly because she had never seen how this increasingly popular game was played, but mainly because Jimmy had enthusiastically advocated it, supported by Albert.

The Royal train arrived in Edinburgh on the 5th October, where my great-grandmother's co-worker, a valet whose name I dont recall, had been sent to join the travelling party.

On 7th October, a train arrived at Ryhope Station, met by Charles, his family, and a team of servants. The visit was completely unannounced and kept secret from public knowledge. Staff in service were sworn to secrecy.

Jimmy Wilson stayed in the servant quarters and actually chatted to my great-grandmother, gossiping about all the details of the background to the visit, confirming that Queen Victoria was in the travelling group.

The following day, my great-grandmother witnessed five carriages setting off from Seaham Hall. Amongst the travellers were some of the royal entourage, definitely including Charles, Albert, and Jimmy Wilson.

The carriages returned at about 7pm, although Jimmy was now making his way back to Scotland so did not return to tell further tales. Unfortunately, the two senior domestic staff who travelled were very tight-lipped, so no details of the day's events were ever revealed.

Nevertheless, I have my grandmother's word that Queen Victoria was almost certainly in the party that attended the match with her son the Prince of Wales. It was the only football match she ever attended.

Believe it or not, Sunderland won 2-0.

Did they have a pint in the Deaf Club?

 

[Roker Pierre]

Did they have a pint in the Deaf Club?

Surely they went to the Queen Vic?

 

[gluepot]

Surely they went to the Queen Vic?

As mentioned in part already, the group went on a mini crawl, starting at the Queen Vic (which tickled Her Majesty more than Albert's ring). Chocolate Tony's great grandad gave them all free drinks. Then Victoria and her lady-in-waiting went to Ye Olde Derby for a port and lemon while Tony's ancestor took the lads to the Palace for pre-match live entertainment. This could have have turned nasty as Albert had a bit of a thing for the sexy ladies - after all many people suspected he was Jack the Ripper - FACT .. They didnt make it to the Deaf Club unfortunately even though Victoria had said she would have liked to meet some gentleman by the name of Hank.

 

[vinegar hill]

His granda the 3rd marquis He really was hated in the area especially around seaham despite being the pioneer behind the harbour, it is said he was a cruel man who would give his emoyees with one hand quickly taking it back with the other through rent, story is that the money for the statue was left by himself and when he died the people of seaham really didn't want the statue at all but neither did the people in Durham in the end the seaham folk must have won, their is a great painting by burlison in the town hall Durham Market place of the statue unveiling like, and can be seen when the building is open as long as the room is free at the time

There is a statue of Charles in front of the old police station on Seaham front.

 

[Kid Galahad]

Just to clarify, my lovely Nana was born in 1894. She also worked in service at some point for the Thompson family, of Shipyard fame. They were all MLFs. You can check all this too, Mr Arcland . I have the census records and Sunderland Antiquarian records to prove it.

Between about 1920 and 1960, Nana lived in Association Road which was right next to Roker Park Clock Stand (it is still there, Association Road, not the Clock Stand). Nana had many tales to tell. I remember she said there was only ever one policeman on duty for match days, and he always parked his bike in her backyard!! She said the noise when the Lads scored was incredible, and once when cooking a pan of peas, they all jumped out of the pan and onto the floor as the ball hit the net (so it was mushy peas for tea that night).

She said she knew some of the players and staff. When I was a young boy she used to buy me Charlie Buchan's Football Monthly. She used to tell me all about the great Charlie Buchan in fact she told me she was a quite friendly with him. Anyway Mr Arcland has now cast doubts in my mind, I really did believe all my my Nana told me. Now maybe I'm thinking she may have been exaggerating a bit (not lying though - she wouldn't do that, apart from when she said she knew Peter Piper of Pickled Pepper fame).

So with Mr Arcland's "friend's" revelation - which I dispute of course, especially as I have since read that Princess Beatrice destroyed all the Victoria diaries before Lord Esher got his hands on them - I suppose I may have to acknowledge that parts of the story I was told may not have been entirely accurate. However, I I will personally continue to believe that Queen Victoria and the Prince of Wales did visit Roker Park and I am sure she would have preferred a Pukka Pie to one of Mr MacIntosh's cucumber sandwiches.

No offence taken Mr Arcland.

True or not I'm going to believe it anyway, apart from the fact we won on the day, seems a bit far fetched that bit

It's great that old stories get passed down and I like to think if not all true there's an element in there somewhere, there's always an element to embellish and your Nanna seems a proper character and storyteller and that's great, my Granda was the same and I love the memories of as a kid of just sitting with him and listening to his stories (his were all 100% as well obviously!) it's a lost art and I can't get my 11yr old to put down her phone listen to me for 5minutes!

 

[Monkey Hanger]

This is a lovely story , a piece of local folklore, passed down through the generations of a Sunderland family . Extraordinarily detailed in times, places and people for oral history . I take nothing away from the story teller and his family.

Putting it into context though, Victoria was 79 years old in 1898. At this time she was in poor health, suffering from crippling rheumatism and failing eyesight due to cataracts. No disrespect meant but I find it highly unlikely that the old girl attended a footy match at this time. Her health continued to deteriorate and she died in 1901, just over 2 years later.

There doesn’t appear to exist any records of her visiting Sunderland, although she may have passed through by train enroute to Balmoral. Furthermore, I don’t think any official visits took place in the North East. However, in 1849, enroute to Balmoral, she stopped off in Newcastle. The train came to a halt on the High Level Bridge to take in the view. Whereupon she was afforded the honour of a 21 gun salute . They obviously missed as she lived another 50 odd years! (Apologies for my anti-monarchist tendencies creeping in there!)

All in all, this is an intriguing story and it probably warrants further historical research.

 

[Tuono]

The journal is obviously fake, Queen Vicky spoke German not English. She once painted FZM on a wall in Suddick, you can still see it there today if you look hard enough although the Z looks more like a T nowadays.
Auf wiedersehen pet was her catch phrase.

 

[maghater]

What your saying is that Queen Victoria was a massive lads fan?

Which explains why she always wore black and kept saying "we are not amused"

 

[riffraff]

Shared this story with a mate - he is a bit of a history buff and fan of the royal family. He has provided the following link to Queen Victoria's journal for that day.

You must be logged on to see external links

So, she either fabricated her journal entry as the whole episode was "top secret" or it didn't happen.

I'd love it if it were true...

Southern FA and FL bias marra. Denying our fans their rightful place as the kings n queens of fandom. Wonder what Harry n Billy’d make of it? It would’ve certainly saved them the five seconds they spent pouring over the first two pages of their M&S bairns “Big Book Of Football” when told they needed teams to support by the palace PR dept before deciding on Arsenal and Aston Villa.

This is a lovely story , a piece of local folklore, passed down through the generations of a Sunderland family . Extraordinarily detailed in times, places and people for oral history . I take nothing away from the story teller and his family.

Putting it into context though, Victoria was 79 years old in 1898. At this time she was in poor health, suffering from crippling rheumatism and failing eyesight due to cataracts. No disrespect meant but I find it highly unlikely that the old girl attended a footy match at this time. Her health continued to deteriorate and she died in 1901, just over 2 years later.

There doesn’t appear to exist any records of her visiting Sunderland, although she may have passed through by train enroute to Balmoral. Furthermore, I don’t think any official visits took place in the North East. However, in 1849, enroute to Balmoral, she stopped off in Newcastle. The train came to a halt on the High Level Bridge to take in the view. Whereupon she was afforded the honour of a 21 gun salute . They obviously missed as she lived another 50 odd years! (Apologies for my anti-monarchist tendencies creeping in there!)

All in all, this is an intriguing story and it probably warrants further historical research.

I think the Bertie bit is more likely to be true. Though it seems he’d already been to a game so wasn’t a MLF just a LF. The first groundhopper?

 

[Helmerroids]

This is a story told to me by my grandmother, whose mother worked in domestic service for the Marquess of Londonderry.

The Marquess of Londonderry (Charles) was a leading politician, aristocrat, local colliery owner, and the owner of Seaham Hall. It was he who officially opened Roker Park on the 10th September 1898.

He associated with royalty, being a contemporary and close friend of the Prince of Wales (Albert).

In the 1890s, football was becoming our national game. Being very proud of Sunderland's new ground, Charles invited his friend Albert (who he knew had recently attended a match at Kennington Oval) to attend a match. Albert agreed to attend the match between Sunderland and West Bromwich Albion to be played on 8th October 1898, but on the clear understanding that it would be a strictly unofficial and private visit.

In late September, the Prince of Wales went to Balmoral to enjoy some hunting and fishing and whilst there, he discovered that the brother of the "gillie" (whose name was Jimmy Wilson) was a Sunderland player (Hughie Wilson). Jimmy had never seen Hughie playing in any football match, so Albert insisted that Jimmy accompanied him to Roker Park. Jimmy was a firm favourite of Queen Victoria who was also holidaying at Balmoral. Apparently, Queen Victoria showed some interest in attending the match, partly because she had never seen how this increasingly popular game was played, but mainly because Jimmy had enthusiastically advocated it, supported by Albert.

The Royal train arrived in Edinburgh on the 5th October, where my great-grandmother's co-worker, a valet whose name I dont recall, had been sent to join the travelling party.

On 7th October, a train arrived at Ryhope Station, met by Charles, his family, and a team of servants. The visit was completely unannounced and kept secret from public knowledge. Staff in service were sworn to secrecy.

Jimmy Wilson stayed in the servant quarters and actually chatted to my great-grandmother, gossiping about all the details of the background to the visit, confirming that Queen Victoria was in the travelling group.

The following day, my great-grandmother witnessed five carriages setting off from Seaham Hall. Amongst the travellers were some of the royal entourage, definitely including Charles, Albert, and Jimmy Wilson.

The carriages returned at about 7pm, although Jimmy was now making his way back to Scotland so did not return to tell further tales. Unfortunately, the two senior domestic staff who travelled were very tight-lipped, so no details of the day's events were ever revealed.

Nevertheless, I have my grandmother's word that Queen Victoria was almost certainly in the party that attended the match with her son the Prince of Wales. It was the only football match she ever attended.

Believe it or not, Sunderland won 2-0.

Great story that, thanks for sharing. Rob Mason would be all over it, sure he’d dig further, it’d make a great article.

 

[gluepot]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I really enjoyed posting the tale because it brought back some great and vivid personal memories of my nana who died in 1977. She was a character and MLF obviously. I hope some of you enjoyed the story too and that it brought some of the famous old SAFC days back to life. I'd say 90% of the story has some truth.

To add further authenticity to the story, can I point out that the original owner of the Queen Victoria Inn in Roker was William Griffiths who in 1899 was honoured by the Queen and became the first "Lord Banavie" (Banavie is a Scottish Highland village). The original Inn was demolished in 1945 and replaced by the new Victory Club (co-inciding with VE Day).

In 2006, the fourth Lord Banavie decided to bring back "the Queen Vic" to its former glory to acknowledge its historic importance. By this time however, his title had changed (because of Mackem dialect) to Lord Bannoffee. An old picture/painting of William, Victoria and Charles used to hang in the Queen Vic next to a photo of Niall Quinn, but sadly it has disappeared.