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New buyers put off by £20 million hole in accounts

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Guinness Guzzler said:
Let's be honest though, that would still be a hell of a lot more than £1! What would happen if we were sold for £35m, that money went into Madrox and sartori then said he wanted to leave Madrox, surely he'd sell his shares for a lot more than £1 given the money they'd have in the bank?
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Of course, but that really is just between him and Donald.
 

Grumpy Old Man said:
Of course, but that really is just between him and Donald.
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Yeah I get that, it just makes you wonder what Sartori is bringing to get such an incredibly generous rate! It's just yet another thing that, on the face of it, doesn't make sense! Like I mentioned though there's a chance the journalist saw the nominal value of the shares and not what Sartori actually paid, so it might be a load of fuss over nothing
 
Coeus said:
I know exactly what youre saying gom but were coming at this from slightly different angles. I believe as a fan we should know why something appears odd, sd earlier podcasts would agree with me. You from a legal stand point.

To be honest I'm not fussed about sartori other than I dont think our money should be finding it's way to south america as the earlier tabloids reported he said.

I just want it finished.
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This is where we are apart. In governance terms, other than legally required public documentation, like the accounts. we have no legal right to anything at all. Fans may say it's their club, but, in legal terms, it's not and never had been. That expectation gap is, in my opinion, unbridgeable. Even if messages have been mixed, contradictory and obfuscatory on occasion, the current owners have probably been more open than any previous ownership.
Guinness Guzzler said:
Yeah I get that, it just makes you wonder what Sartori is bringing to get such an incredibly generous rate! It's just yet another thing that, on the face of it, doesn't make sense! Like I mentioned though there's a chance the journalist saw the nominal value of the shares and not what Sartori actually paid, so it might be a load of fuss over nothing
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Sartori holds 200 £1 shares in Madrox. I suspect he paid £200 for his. Certainly only £1,000 was paid for the whole share capital. The purchase price for the shares came in by way of director's loans. We may get an indication from Madrox's accounts whether Sartori has put in more money that way on top of what he gave Donald for his stake.
 
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Mattyrobinson said:
Think we can all agree that the best resolution to all of this (like or hate Donald & Charlie), is for a sale to go through ASAP.

We will not get promoted with them at the helm.
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we may get promoted with them here to be fair, but then we will just exist for eternity as a championship/ league 1 yoyo club.the reality is that we need to be taken over by somebody better than them that can afford to stick 100m into the club on transfers to get us out of the championship and then a further 100m a year to rise up the premier league. If somebody can’t do that then we might aswell stay as we are. I see many people pinning their hopes on the yanks, who so far have shown that they are penny pinching and less committed than the current clowns which will lead to the exact same outcome. Worse yet we could be sold to a group that see us as ‘real estate’ and something to be carved up losing the AOL or SOL like SBC did. I can’t say for certain that the yanks many are seeing as our saviours won’t do that. There are still some hangers on here that parrot the ‘balanced books’ ‘self sufficient’ shite. 15 years in the 3rd division or bottom of the second will see them off.
 
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Guinness Guzzler said:
Yeah I get that, it just makes you wonder what Sartori is bringing to get such an incredibly generous rate! It's just yet another thing that, on the face of it, doesn't make sense! Like I mentioned though there's a chance the journalist saw the nominal value of the shares and not what Sartori actually paid, so it might be a load of fuss over nothing
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Sunderland. They couldn't get the club without his money.
 
pwsafc said:
This^^ people having a meltdown over aa newspaper article when there's probably only a handful of people on here that fully understand companies accounts when they are released. I don't fully understand half the stuff people like GOM post about the accounts so will just leave it to them. The club isn't going bust like some on here seem to suggest
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you don’t know the club isn’t going bust, the same applies to probably loads of other league 1 and below clubs. We don’t even know if next season will start, and if it does whether fans will be allowed.

its a very dodgy time for loads of clubs including us imo
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
That's the $64000 question. I genuinely have no idea.


Sartori does not own 20% of Sunderland. He owns 20% of Madrox, shares sold to him by Donald. If the amount he paid was an undervaluation, which appears to be the case, then that's between him and Donald. It's got bugger all to do with the club.
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Why do you keep persisting with this line? Madrox was created to be the parent company of SAFC, the only asset of Madrox and its sole purpose is SAFC, if he owns 20% of 1 then he owns 20% of the other
 
RedFlag1308 said:
we may get promoted with them here to be fair, but then we will just exist for eternity as a championship/ league 1 yoyo club.the reality is that we need to be taken over by somebody better than them that can afford to stick 100m into the club on transfers to get us out of the championship and then a further 100m a year to rise up the premier league. If somebody can’t do that then we might aswell stay as we are. I see many people pinning their hopes on the yanks, who so far have shown that they are penny pinching and less committed than the current clowns which will lead to the exact same outcome. Worse yet we could be sold to a group that see us as ‘real estate’ and something to be carved up losing the AOL or SOL like SBC did. I can’t say for certain that the yanks many are seeing as our saviours won’t do that. There are still some hangers on here that parrot the ‘balanced books’ ‘self sufficient’ shite. 15 years in the 3rd division or bottom of the second will see them off.
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£100m on transfers in the championship and then £100m a year in the premier league? The chances of that are very slim. We should be able to be self sufficient in the premier league.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
This is where we are apart. In governance terms, other than legally required public documentation, like the accounts. we have no legal right to anything at all. Fans may say it's their club, but, in legal terms, it's not and never had been. That expectation gap is, in my opinion, unbridgeable. Even if messages have been mixed, contradictory and obfuscatory on occasion, the current owners have probably been more open than any previous ownership.


Sartori holds 200 £1 shares in Madrox. I suspect he paid £200 for his. Certainly only £1,000 was paid for the whole share capital. The purchase price for the shares came in by way of director's loans. We may get an indication from Madrox's accounts whether Sartori has put in more money that way on top of what he gave Donald for his stake.
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I suspect the additional 2.5m being floated that came from Madrox was Sartori, unless it was Donald trying to cover the additional money for the Grigg transfer
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
This is where we are apart. In governance terms, other than legally required public documentation, like the accounts. we have no legal right to anything at all. Fans may say it's their club, but, in legal terms, it's not and never had been. That expectation gap is, in my opinion, unbridgeable. Even if messages have been mixed, contradictory and obfuscatory on occasion, the current owners have probably been more open than any previous ownership.


Sartori holds 200 £1 shares in Madrox. I suspect he paid £200 for his. Certainly only £1,000 was paid for the whole share capital. The purchase price for the shares came in by way of director's loans. We may get an indication from Madrox's accounts whether Sartori has put in more money that way on top of what he gave Donald for his stake.
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Yea, again I understand where you are coming from and agree to a point. I had similar view point with Ellis.

But this is about stewart, you shouldnt get to say things like this is your club, it's your money, we are just custodians and do the opposite. Mean what you say or recant it imo iirc.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Sartori holds 200 £1 shares in Madrox. I suspect he paid £200 for his. Certainly only £1,000 was paid for the whole share capital. The purchase price for the shares came in by way of director's loans. We may get an indication from Madrox's accounts whether Sartori has put in more money that way on top of what he gave Donald for his stake.
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The slimey right wing tit put less in than most adult season ticket holders.
 
Nelly The Elephant said:
Why do you keep persisting with this line? Madrox was created to be the parent company of SAFC, the only asset of Madrox and its sole purpose is SAFC, if he owns 20% of 1 then he owns 20% of the other
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Because the separation of legal personalities is important. His connection to Sunderland is indirect, and that matters in a number of contexts. It's not simply semantics. It has legal meaning.
 
Gaz said:
you don’t know the club isn’t going bust, the same applies to probably loads of other league 1 and below clubs. We don’t even know if next season will start, and if it does whether fans will be allowed.

its a very dodgy time for loads of clubs including us imo
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Nobody knows for sure about anything in life, but I would put a bet on that we didn't go bust
 
RedFlag1308 said:
I suspect the additional 2.5m being floated that came from Madrox was Sartori, unless it was Donald trying to cover the additional money for the Grigg transfer
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We'll be able to see by comparing the loan debtor in SJD with the loan creditor in Madrox. Any difference can be inferred to be Sartori (unless CM actually out cash in, which I find doubtful).
Coeus said:
Yea, again I understand where you are coming from and agree to a point. I had similar view point with Ellis.

But this is about stewart, you shouldnt get to say things like this is your club, it's your money, we are just custodians and do the opposite. Mean what you say or recant it imo iirc.
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That was naive in the extreme, and really just meaningless twaddle to get the fans onside.
 
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RedFlag1308 said:
I suspect the additional 2.5m being floated that came from Madrox was Sartori, unless it was Donald trying to cover the additional money for the Grigg transfer
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I'm sure Methven said Sartori had put something in, in one of his more recent talk ins. It rings a bell anyway. Whether he was telling the truth is another thing altogether though.
 
sksk3021 said:
£100m on transfers in the championship and then £100m a year in the premier league? The chances of that are very slim. We should be able to be self sufficient in the premier league.
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There's no such thing as being self sufficient in the Prem. As soon as you get there you are talking about new contracts 30-50 k a week at least. Villa spent 140
mil and they are struggling. Fulham as much the season before and got relegated. The Prem is full of billionaires. Even the likes of the Coates lot at Stoke. Personally I do believe and hope that you get good buyers but you are talking at least person fortunes of half a billion in the Championship. Your academy could be key but if SD is selling your young lads for a steal you are going to struggle. Football is a game for the mega rich these days and the Championship gets you a seat on the top table. SD is on the fruit machines. I might be wrong and believe me I as a Wolves fan want you to succeed. I'm just saddened to see your plight right now. Couldn't give a flying one when it was Norwich , Sheffields's , Leeds etc. I think I speak for a lot of Wolves fans.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Because the separation of legal personalities is important. His connection to Sunderland is indirect, and that matters in a number of contexts. It's not simply semantics. It has legal meaning.
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What would the logic be in selling 20% of a company which has an asset which you value at 40 mill for £200?
Is there some financial trick as to why this makes sense?
 
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