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New buyers put off by £20 million hole in accounts

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Bears Beets said:
he doesn’t I agree, he’s a mag bellend but for 3 separate publications to report on it then I think there’s some truth.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying there may be truth in it. Although I will say that draft accounts are, by definition, not final, so I'm not putting the black cap on until then. Let's just say that the allegiances of all the journalists involved leads me to suspect that altruism was not one their motives.
 

tunstallhill said:
so they paid £11m for the club
they owe the club £21m

they need to sell for £32m just to break even, walk away with nothing, and leave club debt free and with no one owing money to it?
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No I don’t think that’s 100% right. The articles today say they’ve removed the requirement for the £20m to be paid back. SAFC has written off the £20m owed to it by madrox. Anything they get for a sale over £11m is profit to them.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
No. Short moved the last £25m into the previous holding company just before the sale (evidenced by charges in Short-owned companies appearing at that time in favour of SBC). Cosmetically, Sunderland was debt free; the reality was somewhat different,
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Fuck me that's gutting man. And you were so close to promotion in that game against Charlton. I still think that some billionaire could take a punt on you. It's not hard to get out of that league with a decent manager and some seasoned pro's. Jackett did it with us. You've got the fan base and foundation. Knobhead needs to stop selling your young decent players. He's literally running you day to day. He needs to come clean with you fans and tell you what's really going on. Anyone clever could start a bit of a bidding war for Hugill. There's a few Prem teams sniffing around.
 
Sure it’s been said but Charlie said there’s no obligation to pay back the money and if it’s done it’s because of the goodwill of the owners
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying there may be truth in it. Although I will say that draft accounts are, by definition, not final, so I'm not putting the black cap on until then. Let's just say that the allegiances of all the journalists involved leads me to suspect that altruism was not one their motives.
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Perhaps the question is who gave Hope a copy of the preliminary accounts and why?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Sadly, I find it hard to believe that Craig Hope has the best interests of SAFC at heart. I can only imagine he's now sitting in lockdown having poked the hornet's nest cackling like Montgomery Burns.
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If it was only him reporting it I would probably agree. I don't think for one minute that he has any emotional connection with us. He's a Daily mail journalist for starters. Matt Lawton is pretty well respected however, as is Hardy despite him being a Mag. Lawton doesn't need to concern himself with us despite the lack of sports news out there at the minute. He's made it to very high level in his field.
 
mag in peace said:
This. Unless they have other plans for the grounds etc (highly unlikely) the only reason they would have invested 10m (a paltry amount for them) would be to secure the club and allow their potential takeover.
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Even the having plans for the grounds thing would just have me thinking 'Why?'.

I mean I love my home city but it would be highly abnormal for these people to have thought "Y'know where we should expand our property development capability? This swell lil' place called Sunder-land!"
 
South Banker Wolf said:
Fuck me that's gutting man. And you were so close to promotion in that game against Charlton. I still think that some billionaire could take a punt on you. It's not hard to get out of that league with a decent manager and some seasoned pro's. Jackett did it with us. You've got the fan base and foundation. Knobhead needs to stop selling your young decent players. He's literally running you day to day. He needs to come clean with you fans and tell you what's really going on. Anyone clever could start a bit of a bidding war for Hugill. There's a few Prem teams sniffing around.
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There's nobody clever at our club. Think of a time when your club was badly ran and multiply it by 10 then you have an idea pal.
 
beezer said:
No I don’t think that’s 100% right. The articles today say they’ve removed the requirement for the £20m to be paid back. SAFC has written off the £20m owed to it by madrox. Anything they get for a sale over £11m is profit to them.
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Plus anything they've put in since writing the loan off. And this indeed may be the red flag for potential buyers. Why write of a debt owed to a subsidiary. and then subsequently put money in? Although £9m was by way of additional share capital, and thus not liable for repayment to Madrox.
 
Vito said:
Do they take over as owner of the club, to run it as an institution? Or do they take over the assets, land, ground etc, to get their money back and leave the club to pick up the pieces?

Genuine question, no idea how these things work.
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Sell the stadium and build a block of flats.
 
mag in peace said:
This. Unless they have other plans for the grounds etc (highly unlikely) the only reason they would have invested 10m (a paltry amount for them) would be to secure the club and allow their potential takeover.
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If you're looking at it from a completely unemotional business perspective, the value of Sunderland's assets being sold is more than the value of running the club without serious investment.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Plus anything they've put in since writing the loan off. And this indeed may be the red flag for potential buyers. Why write of a debt owed to a subsidiary. and then subsequently put money in? Although £9m was by way of additional share capital, and thus not liable for repayment to Madrox.
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Well, the claim in the Times is that since the Y/E for those accounts, £11.5 million has been put into SAFC by Madrox by way of additional share capital. Of course, they don't expect us to twig that £9 million of that was from the loan from FPP.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Plus anything they've put in since writing the loan off. And this indeed may be the red flag for potential buyers. Why write of a debt owed to a subsidiary. and then subsequently put money in? Although £9m was by way of additional share capital, and thus not liable for repayment to Madrox.
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OK I see. I presume they must have put something in, such as the money for will Grigg. Do we know where that came from or will that be reflected in the accounts that are due?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Apology accepted. And kudos for doing it, Many wouldn't have. I attempt to be even handed. When the pitchforks are out, that comes across as defending. I have personal experience of being involved in trying to turn round a struggling business. It's beyond hard, so I have an appreciation of what people are trying to do.
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I have asked you stuff on this before and have felt because you seem a real decent man you want them to being telling the truth which is fair enough, But if this is correct and not sure why 2 papers would lie about it as they will both get sued big style especially off our owner, if it is the truth and account’s will tell everyone 100% then you have to come out imo and distance yourself from this lot or you are as bad as them I’m afraid.
 
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