16 year old kid attacked by South Yorkshire copper

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Zweiguys said:
Do you have all the facts here?
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No i don't. I don't know what that lad did to provoke the armed and trained policeman to take a run up and smash him over his head with a baton.

However, it was a needless and dangerous act of violence. Why wasn't he just arrested?
Zweiguys said:
The perpetrator sets the level of restraint required to restrain.
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So a 16 year old lad needs to be smashed over the head by a policeman to restrain him? There was at least 4 police officers in the immediate vicinity. He should of just been of been lifted.
 


Zweiguys said:
The perpetrator sets the level of restraint required to restrain.
Play stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

Do you have all the facts here?
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It’s an argument for another forum I’d guess, but law enforcement in America hasnt exactly got a stellar record when it comes to using proportional force to restrain suspects. Much like here they do an incredible job under very difficult circumstances but that can be undermined by a very small minority of officers losing their objectivity and tempers.
 
Gobuchul said:
No i don't. I don't know what that lad did to provoke the armed and trained policeman to take a run up and smash him over his head with a baton.

However, it was a needless and dangerous act of violence. Why wasn't he just arrested?

So a 16 year old lad needs to be smashed over the head by a policeman to restrain him? There was at least 4 police officers in the immediate vicinity. He should of just been of been lifted.
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You first need to gain control of the suspect before you can make an arrest.
I too do not know the facts here. Nor do I know your laws.
 
Zweiguys said:
You first need to gain control of the suspect before you can make an arrest.
I too do not know the facts here. Nor do I know your laws.
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Theres laws about reasonable restraint and every officer in the force is taught how to restrain people reasonably. That is in no way reasonable and the officer in question should surely be removed from the force and face criminal charges
 
The kid was a twit.. But he didn't deserve that... Ground for attempted murder in my opinion ... If a burgurlar breaks into you house. You can only use force in proportion to his attack on you..that coward police person could have killed that lad... He will get away with it... Corruption still rules in this Tory ruled country....
 
marathon9 said:
The kid was a twit.. But he didn't deserve that... Ground for attempted murder in my opinion ... If a burgurlar breaks into you house. You can only use force in proportion to his attack on you..that coward police person could have killed that lad... He will get away with it... Corruption still rules in this Tory ruled country....
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The lad still might die as head injuries can have a delayed effect.
 
phunboy said:
Theres laws about reasonable restraint and every officer in the force is taught how to restrain people reasonably. That is in no way reasonable and the officer in question should surely be removed from the force and face criminal charges
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Again, I don’t know the facts related to the initial police involvement.
But .....
What if the kid was being placed under arrest and while doing so he took off running? What if in the process of breaking free he took a swing at the officer?
These are all things to be considered.
 
pwsafc said:
Didn't say it was, for the 100 th time I will say it again it the cop has used excessive force then he will be in trouble. But will say it again if the lad was fighting and attacking people I have no sympathy for him.
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no he wasn’t, he was trying to stop two people fighting, and did it with out clumping someone over the head.
Zweiguys said:
Again, I don’t know the facts related to the initial police involvement.
But .....
What if the kid was being placed under arrest and while doing so he took off running? What if in the process of breaking free he took a swing at the officer?
These are all things to be considered.
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I’ve told ya what happened
 
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Zweiguys said:
What if the kid was being placed under arrest and while doing so he took off running? What if in the process of breaking free he took a swing at the officer?
These are all things to be considered.
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None of those things would of meant that the attack he suffered was "reasonable force" and therefore legal. Why do you think it would?
 
marathon9 said:
The kid was a twit.. But he didn't deserve that... Ground for attempted murder in my opinion ... If a burgurlar breaks into you house. You can only use force in proportion to his attack on you..that coward police person could have killed that lad... He will get away with it... Corruption still rules in this Tory ruled country....
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So I’ll wait for the burglar to attack me in my home so that I can then give out a measured and equal response?
If that’s the law there it makes zero sense.
 
Zweiguys said:
As well you should. It’s not legal to cause bodily harm to innocent people.
A policeman on the other hand works under a different set of rules. They don’t just roam about looking to bangpeople about.
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You missed the context.
Zweiguys said:
So I’ll wait for the burglar to attack me in my home so that I can then give out a measured and equal response?
If that’s the law there it makes zero sense.
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You don't need to wait to be physically attacked to invoke self defence.
 
Zweiguys said:
So I’ll wait for the burglar to attack me in my home so that I can then give out a measured and equal response?
If that’s the law there it makes zero sense.
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That's incorrect.

This is the definition of reasonable force.

Reasonable Force
The amount of force necessary to protect oneself or one's property. Reasonable force is a term associated with defending one's person or property from a violent attack, theft, or other type of unlawful aggression. It may be used as a defense in a criminal trial or to defend oneself in a suit alleging tortious conduct. If one uses excessive force, or more than the force necessary for such protection, he or she may be considered to have forfeited the right to defense. Reasonable force is also known as legal force.

A person is generally justified in using force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm if the person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. The person is also generally justified in using such extreme force to prevent or terminate another's unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling, if: (1) the entry is made or attempted in a violent manner and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent personal violence to himself or another then in the dwelling, or (2) he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.
 
Should this be Parsnipped?
I'm enjoying this conversation but it may have wandered away from PF.
Happy to continue either way. I’m happy no one has resorted to name calling!
 
Zweiguys said:
Again, I don’t know the facts related to the initial police involvement.
But .....
What if the kid was being placed under arrest and while doing so he took off running? What if in the process of breaking free he took a swing at the officer?
These are all things to be considered.
Click to expand...
Nope it's still not proportionate response.the police officer is not in control of the situation or himself and the teenager has his back to the officer. As far as the IOPC should be concerned its an open and shut case. The parents of the 16 year old white rightly have to sue the force and take civil action against the officer in question.
 
Gobuchul said:
That's incorrect.

This is the definition of reasonable force.

Reasonable Force
The amount of force necessary to protect oneself or one's property. Reasonable force is a term associated with defending one's person or property from a violent attack, theft, or other type of unlawful aggression. It may be used as a defense in a criminal trial or to defend oneself in a suit alleging tortious conduct. If one uses excessive force, or more than the force necessary for such protection, he or she may be considered to have forfeited the right to defense. Reasonable force is also known as legal force.

A person is generally justified in using force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm if the person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. The person is also generally justified in using such extreme force to prevent or terminate another's unlawful entry into or attack upon a dwelling, if: (1) the entry is made or attempted in a violent manner and he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent personal violence to himself or another then in the dwelling, or (2) he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.
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BINGO!
 
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