T20 Blast Crowds

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Absolutely right.

No people in our ground, no merchandise sold, no second and third and so on and so forth visitors, no beer sold, no bait sold, no memberships sold, no chance of kids watching live cricket on their doorsteps, we could go on for days.

It's no different to football which is why I jacked it all in at the top level. Too much £££ in the game whilst lower league clubs like Hartlepool become more and more poorer and are forced to sell their prized young assets for pittance like what happened with Pools recently with Fulham. The rich get richer, the poorer get poorer. 1.3 million to Durham is absolutely irrelevant when others are recieving 3-4 million for example and are gaining more TV exposure etc. Mind you I know fans of participating clubs who are massively against the idea of this silly new competition.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Absolutely right.

No people in our ground, no merchandise sold, no second and third and so on and so forth visitors, no beer sold, no bait sold, no memberships sold, no chance of kids watching live cricket on their doorsteps, we could go on for days.



EH?!! What the.....?!

Fast track process?

You don’t realise that the only way he was able to achieve what he achieved, was because Durham gave him that opportunity to showcase his talent.

If he got no county deal in 2009, how the fuck would he have been in the Ashes squad in 2010?

PLEASE enlighten us all. So far you’ve come up with the square root of fuckall in the way of an explanation as to how Durham haven’t played a massive part in the success of Ben Stokes.

I have said a world star such as Ben Stokes would have made it with his undoubted talent with or without Durham.

Thats not criticising Durham or saying they didn’t play their part, or helped him make it quicker.

I have also never mentioned the ashes squad of 2010, you have

I have just said he is far too talented a player not too have made it, not sure what complicated about that.

Your point in your latest posts are saying Durham helped him make it quicker, ( fair enough) which is very diffrent from saying he would have not made it without Durham, which he clearly would have imo.

 

[brandon]

I have said a world star such as Ben Stokes would have made it with his undoubted talent with or without Durham.

Thats not criticising Durham or saying they didn’t play their part, or helped him make it quicker.

I have also never mentioned the ashes squad of 2010, you have

I have just said he is far too talented a player not too have made it, not sure what complicated about that.

What is complicated about explaining to us all how such a ‘world star’ like Stokes would be where he is today without Durham?

You keep avoiding that question.

Why?

Shortly after the Ashes hundred, the Aussies were so impressed that he got a Big Bash gig, shortly after that he ended up being the highest valued overseas player in the IPL. He’s been a massive part of England’s One Day transformation, there’s no way we would be World Champions today if it wasn’t for him.

But at what point in all of that, would he have been picked up by another county and given an opportunity in their First Team?

If Durham didn’t give him such a pivotal role in our side in 2010 at the tender age of 18, he would absolutely NOT have been in the Ashes squad that winter.

So where and when would he have made his England debut?

The margins in professional and elite sport are so fine, I am absolutely certain he would not have had the rise he’s had if it wasn’t for Durham throwing him in at the deep end in 2010.

You can continue to ignore the facts put in front of you and you can continue to ignore the question from me of how he would’ve achieved what he has done without being given the chance at Durham.

But it’s here in pixels for everyone to see and make their own judgement and I will ask everyone reading this to ask themselves again what I’ve been banging on about all along.

How will a format that excludes over half of the clubs and players in county cricket be a good thing for the longevity of English cricket?

 

[jackpunch]

Whoever thinks Stokes would have been missed had Durham not been a first class county is nuts. He would have ended up at Lancs.... All the first class counties have eyes on their neighbouring minor counties to see what talent is available. Durham did the right thing and nicked Stokes before Lancs spotted him.

 

[NorthCountryBoy]

Whoever thinks Stokes would have been missed had Durham not been a first class county is nuts. He would have ended up at Lancs.... All the first class counties have eyes on their neighbouring minor counties to see what talent is available. Durham did the right thing and nicked Stokes before Lancs spotted him.

I agree with that but I'd say that @brandon and @GordonMuchallNo1Fan 's points hold on Onions and Collingwood. Neither had the stand out attributes of a Stokes or Harmison at 18/19 and both would have likely ended up as local league players for me were DCCC not first class.

 

[Parkside]

The likelihood is that if Stokes hasn't been nurtured by Durham he would have returned to New Zealand to his father and,ironically,help the kiwis win the world cup. Nor is there any evidence that if Durham hasn't gone 1st class, the latent talent would have been picked up by other counties. Prior to 1992 how many local players did so? A handful in the 60s went to Northants scouted by Doug Ferguson. After that I only recall Pop Welch. In fact, the system was that good that Simon Brown was released by Northants at 21 and went on to take 500+ wickets for Durham.And there was abundant talent in the area evidenced by Durham being unbeaten for 6 years as a minor county.

 

[jackpunch]

I agree with that but I'd say that @brandon and @GordonMuchallNo1Fan 's points hold on Onions and Collingwood. Neither had the stand out attributes of a Stokes or Harmison at 18/19 and both would have likely ended up as local league players for me were DCCC not first class.

Not sure about Colly, reckon someone would have found him. Harmison less so... Probably would have ended up like many local cricketers who couldnt face being away from home. Irrespective, DCCC has been absolutely fantastic for the area and for England cricket.

On a different very sad note, I've just read that Tommy Peel has passed away.

 

[brandon]

Whoever thinks Stokes would have been missed had Durham not been a first class county is nuts. He would have ended up at Lancs.... All the first class counties have eyes on their neighbouring minor counties to see what talent is available. Durham did the right thing and nicked Stokes before Lancs spotted him.

Fuck me man. None are so blind as those who can’t see.

Ha’way then, why don’t you have a go of explaining to us the pathway that Stokes would’ve taken had Durham not been a First Class County.

While you’re at it you can explain why Lancashire didn’t take him in reality in this instance.......

You cannot possibly say they would’ve picked him up when the fact is they didn’t.

The evidence is so f***ing obvious that Cricketers from this part of the world simpily were NOT having careers in cricket to the extent they now have the luxury of.

Parkside explains it so perfectly - a handful have managed to get gigs at other counties but it always comes back time and again to the simple facts of who played for England before 1992 and who have played for England since.

It is absolutely f***ing undeniable. Yet some people STILL wish to chose not to see the wood for the trees.

 

[jackpunch]

Fuck me man. None are so blind as those who can’t see.

Ha’way then, why don’t you have a go of explaining to us the pathway that Stokes would’ve taken had Durham not been a First Class County.

While you’re at it you can explain why Lancashire didn’t take him in reality in this instance.......

You cannot possibly say they would’ve picked him up when the fact is they didn’t.

The evidence is so f***ing obvious that Cricketers from this part of the world simpily were NOT having careers in cricket to the extent they now have the luxury of.

Parkside explains it so perfectly - a handful have managed to get gigs at other counties but it always comes back time and again to the simple facts of who played for England before 1992 and who have played for England since.

It is absolutely f***ing undeniable. Yet some people STILL wish to chose not to see the wood for the trees.

Not sure why you feel the need to be so abusive. I believe Stokes would have been picked up, you don't.

I'm not saying that cricketers from the NE got a fair chance prior to 1992 but there's still plenty who managed to find a way into first class and ultimately test cricket.

 

[Parkside]

Not sure why you feel the need to be so abusive. I believe Stokes would have been picked up, you don't.

I'm not saying that cricketers from the NE got a fair chance prior to 1992 but there's still plenty who managed to find a way into first class and ultimately test cricket.

Care to name some. Post-war I can only recall Milburn playing test cricket and a handful playing 1st class

 

[jackpunch]

Care to name some. Post-war I can only recall Milburn playing test cricket and a handful playing 1st class

Apologies I hadn't realised I'd said Test cricket, that's clearly completely wrong

 

[leecoo]

I'm not sure what the 100 can bring that the Blast cant..particularly if it had similar backing

England have won the world cup so kids and adults just getting interested in cricket on the back of this will start to get interested in the Blast, increased attendances is showing that and this is happening now not in a years time

As for been asked for a new concept who has asked that the BBC? cant understand why they have asked that from the ECB, can hardly imagine them going to the FA and saying as much as we like the FA Cup can you change to add a bit more razzamatazz or playing 100 mins instead of 90

 

[Struts]

I'm not sure what the 100 can bring that the Blast cant..particularly if it had similar backing

England have won the world cup so kids and adults just getting interested in cricket on the back of this will start to get interested in the Blast, increased attendances is showing that and this is happening now not in a years time

As for been asked for a new concept who has asked that the BBC? cant understand why they have asked that from the ECB, can hardly imagine them going to the FA and saying as much as we like the FA Cup can you change to add a bit more razzamatazz or playing 100 mins instead of 90

Some games are going to be on terrestrial which automatically means it's going to be a success! Afterall it works for Rugby League and Atheltics

 

[Voice of fair play]

What is complicated about explaining to us all how such a ‘world star’ like Stokes would be where he is today without Durham?

You keep avoiding that question.

Why?

Shortly after the Ashes hundred, the Aussies were so impressed that he got a Big Bash gig, shortly after that he ended up being the highest valued overseas player in the IPL. He’s been a massive part of England’s One Day transformation, there’s no way we would be World Champions today if it wasn’t for him.

But at what point in all of that, would he have been picked up by another county and given an opportunity in their First Team?

If Durham didn’t give him such a pivotal role in our side in 2010 at the tender age of 18, he would absolutely NOT have been in the Ashes squad that winter.

So where and when would he have made his England debut?

The margins in professional and elite sport are so fine, I am absolutely certain he would not have had the rise he’s had if it wasn’t for Durham throwing him in at the deep end in 2010.

You can continue to ignore the facts put in front of you and you can continue to ignore the question from me of how he would’ve achieved what he has done without being given the chance at Durham.

But it’s here in pixels for everyone to see and make their own judgement and I will ask everyone reading this to ask themselves again what I’ve been banging on about all along.

How will a format that excludes over half of the clubs and players in county cricket be a good thing for the longevity of English cricket?

I am not avoiding your question as the answer is clear as day.

Somebody soo talented as Stokes would always have made it to the top level, I am flabbergasted you can’t see that I really am.

I am not disputing anything you say about Durham picking him up and then giving him his chance and the rest is history.

I also don’t dispute for one second that because of Durham he got his chance much quicker and of course you are dead right there as well.

However there would always have been a route for a player that talented, he could have played minor counties for Cumbria, Northumberland Durham whoever and been picked up through that route or Lancashire like what @jackpunch says

Yes played for England later than he did but definitely play for England and be where he is today.

Surely you don’t think without Durham he would have played just for Cockermouth for the rest of his career?

This particular debate is not about Durham it is about the talent of one of the best cricketers in the world, somebody with that talent will always make it

The likelihood is that if Stokes hasn't been nurtured by Durham he would have returned to New Zealand to his father and,ironically,help the kiwis win the world cup. Nor is there any evidence that if Durham hasn't gone 1st class, the latent talent would have been picked up by other counties. Prior to 1992 how many local players did so? A handful in the 60s went to Northants scouted by Doug Ferguson. After that I only recall Pop Welch. In fact, the system was that good that Simon Brown was released by Northants at 21 and went on to take 500+ wickets for Durham.And there was abundant talent in the area evidenced by Durham being unbeaten for 6 years as a minor county.

The points about other players given a chance by Durham stands up very well.

But not with Stokes, he was soo talented he would have made the big time and England without Durham imo he was and is too talented not too.

Fuck me man. None are so blind as those who can’t see.

Ha’way then, why don’t you have a go of explaining to us the pathway that Stokes would’ve taken had Durham not been a First Class County.

While you’re at it you can explain why Lancashire didn’t take him in reality in this instance.......

You cannot possibly say they would’ve picked him up when the fact is they didn’t.

The evidence is so f***ing obvious that Cricketers from this part of the world simpily were NOT having careers in cricket to the extent they now have the luxury of.

Parkside explains it so perfectly - a handful have managed to get gigs at other counties but it always comes back time and again to the simple facts of who played for England before 1992 and who have played for England since.

It is absolutely f***ing undeniable. Yet some people STILL wish to chose not to see the wood for the trees.

The point you clearly missing here is that Stokes was soo much more talented that any other player in this area hence he would have made it.

You seem to be having a argument with yourself because nobody is disagreeing with your other point about other local cricketers getting more of a chance becuase of Durham.

When players are soo good there still make it becuase of their immense talent Stokes is in that category.

 

[brandon]

However there would always have been a route for a player that talented, he could have played minor counties for Cumbria, Northumberland Durham whoever and been picked up through that route or Lancashire like what @jackpunch says.

So tell me, how many minor counties Cricketers from Cumbria and Northumberland (and also Durham prior to 1992) went on to play for England?

 

[Voice of fair play]

So tell me, how many minor counties Cricketers from Cumbria and Northumberland (and also Durham prior to 1992) went on to play for England?

How many were as talented as Stokes?

You not listening to me mate or the point I am pointing across at all.

I know what you saying and totally get your point and agree not many did, only Milburn and Willey spring to mind, so I get it,

But the whole point of this argument is before and after 1992 , this area has not seen any cricketers even close to the talent of Stokes.

We talking about one of the best cricketers in the world for gods sake.

Like I said before get your point about Plunkett maybe not making it if not for Durham, as you have made some excellent points about how Durham have given the chance and developed future England players.

But Stokes is a total diffrent kettle of fish, he would have been picked up to play at a diffrent higher level whether in be 1920 or 2020 becuase he is that good.

Out of interest asking you a question for a change if Durham never came along where would Stokes be today then in your opinion.

 

[jackpunch]

Care to name some. Post-war I can only recall Milburn playing test cricket and a handful playing 1st class

Simon Brown, Geoff Cook, Peter Willey (although I'll happily admit I've got no idea at what age he left the North East)

In terms of 1st class - I haven't checked but in addition to those above, I recall - Norman Graham, Ian Smith, Michael & Andrew Roseberry, Phil Weston ? There's probably a few more that I can't remember and a few more on top of that who had contracts with 1st class counties but packed in due to not being able to hack being away from home or lack of opportunities or didn't fancy getting paid to play cricket for 6 months then having to find a job painting and decorating in the closed season. I have a vague recollection that Stuart Wilkinson was given a contract with a 1st class county but didn't want to live away from home. Regardless, to be honest, my post wasn't particularly well worded and clearly wasn't correct.

However, I maintain that Stokes would have gone to Lancs had Durham not got him. I'm sure someone will know for sure, but I've got a recollection of hearing something on the radio yonks ago that Durham were given a tip off from someone either connected to Cumbria Cricket Board or Cockermouth cricket club about him. Given that Lancs signed up Liam Livingstone and Jordan Clark, both Cumbrian but neither anywhere close to the talent of Stokes, I can't see why anyone thinks Stokes wouldn't have got signed up by someone.

As I said earlier Durham being a 1st class county has been absolutely fantastic for everyone and especially England who have reaped the rewards of a brilliant Academy set up. There's no doubt that prior to 1992 north east cricketers had to be more talented and/or determined that their counterparts who were already resident within the boundaries of the 1st class counties.

 

[brandon]

How many were as talented as Stokes?

You not listening to me mate or the point I am pointing across at all.

No, it is you that isn’t listening.

For talent to be spotted, it needs the opportunity to show its potential.

Durham gave Stokes the conduit to showcase his talent.

Had Durham not been around the chances are that he’d have opted for rugby league and/or would’ve returned to New Zealand with his family like Parkside said.

There’s a very very fine line between success and failure when it comes to being in the right place at the right time to get spotted.

 

[Bri]

Simon Brown, Geoff Cook, Peter Willey (although I'll happily admit I've got no idea at what age he left the North East)

In terms of 1st class - I haven't checked but in addition to those above, I recall - Norman Graham, Ian Smith, Michael & Andrew Roseberry, Phil Weston ? There's probably a few more that I can't remember and a few more on top of that who had contracts with 1st class counties but packed in due to not being able to hack being away from home or lack of opportunities or didn't fancy getting paid to play cricket for 6 months then having to find a job painting and decorating in the closed season. I have a vague recollection that Stuart Wilkinson was given a contract with a 1st class county but didn't want to live away from home. Regardless, to be honest, my post wasn't particularly well worded and clearly wasn't correct.

However, I maintain that Stokes would have gone to Lancs had Durham not got him. I'm sure someone will know for sure, but I've got a recollection of hearing something on the radio yonks ago that Durham were given a tip off from someone either connected to Cumbria Cricket Board or Cockermouth cricket club about him. Given that Lancs signed up Liam Livingstone and Jordan Clark, both Cumbrian but neither anywhere close to the talent of Stokes, I can't see why anyone thinks Stokes wouldn't have got signed up by someone.

As I said earlier Durham being a 1st class county has been absolutely fantastic for everyone and especially England who have reaped the rewards of a brilliant Academy set up. There's no doubt that prior to 1992 north east cricketers had to be more talented and/or determined that their counterparts who were already resident within the boundaries of the 1st class counties.

Human Romaines.

Also think those who did play for England but wouldn't have if not for Durham. Steve Harmison being the biggest in both senses and probably as a consequence Mark Wood too. I'd probably include Bunny Onion and Scott Borthwick in the list. Would Colly have played for England, marginal, maybe, maybe not.

 

[Voice of fair play]

No, it is you that isn’t listening.

For talent to be spotted, it needs the opportunity to show its potential.

Durham gave Stokes the conduit to showcase his talent.

Had Durham not been around the chances are that he’d have opted for rugby league and/or would’ve returned to New Zealand with his family like Parkside said.

There’s a very very fine line between success and failure when it comes to being in the right place at the right time to get spotted.

Good or great talent in this case is always spotted, in this case Durham done very well to spot it first.

The fine line argument works with borderline cricketers who may make it ,not world stars!

We talking about a world stat here and in the top 3 all rounders England have ever produced, if Durham never came along first of course someone of that talent would have been noticed by another county.

Simon Brown, Geoff Cook, Peter Willey (although I'll happily admit I've got no idea at what age he left the North East)

In terms of 1st class - I haven't checked but in addition to those above, I recall - Norman Graham, Ian Smith, Michael & Andrew Roseberry, Phil Weston ? There's probably a few more that I can't remember and a few more on top of that who had contracts with 1st class counties but packed in due to not being able to hack being away from home or lack of opportunities or didn't fancy getting paid to play cricket for 6 months then having to find a job painting and decorating in the closed season. I have a vague recollection that Stuart Wilkinson was given a contract with a 1st class county but didn't want to live away from home. Regardless, to be honest, my post wasn't particularly well worded and clearly wasn't correct.

However, I maintain that Stokes would have gone to Lancs had Durham not got him. I'm sure someone will know for sure, but I've got a recollection of hearing something on the radio yonks ago that Durham were given a tip off from someone either connected to Cumbria Cricket Board or Cockermouth cricket club about him. Given that Lancs signed up Liam Livingstone and Jordan Clark, both Cumbrian but neither anywhere close to the talent of Stokes, I can't see why anyone thinks Stokes wouldn't have got signed up by someone.

As I said earlier Durham being a 1st class county has been absolutely fantastic for everyone and especially England who have reaped the rewards of a brilliant Academy set up. There's no doubt that prior to 1992 north east cricketers had to be more talented and/or determined that their counterparts who were already resident within the boundaries of the 1st class counties.

I never knew Livingstone and Clark were from Cumbria, interesting that.

The more I think about the more ridiculous the argument that Stokes would not have made it sounds.

Would Ian Botham and Andrew Flintoff not have made it if Somerset or Lancashire never spotted them first!

Of course they would!

If a Somerset fan or Lancashire fan came on here and said them two players would not have played for England unless they spotted them, we would laugh our heads off at them..

That’s not taking away any of the clear fanastic work Durham have done over the years developing other players for England that otherwise they may have not had the opportunity.

But it’s ludicrous to suggest one of the best all rounders in the world, would not have played for England unless Durham spotted him imo.