Solider F

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On the whole the British army and politicians did a great job in Northern Ireland keeping and fighting for peace. The IRA and UDF did nothing but kill and maim and still do today. Soldier f should be brought to justice about what he did. But we shouldn’t forget for one second the countless atrocities carried out by the afore mentioned parties.
What I find hard to understand is people publicly posting support for either the IRA or UDF.
They are cowards of the highest degree who hide their faces in shame. And let’s not forget they are willing to kill their own.
 
Horatio Pugwash said:
Well it happened in 1066 but I'm pretty sure I won't be nipping out to kill any innocent French children anytime soon

Are you fcking serious?
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Are you serious?

France did none of those things.

Because of a lamentable inability to secure succession the English Crown was challenged by the Duke of Normandy. Not France. He didn't kill 9 in 10 people, you don't all speak French, they aren't still here.


So if France did that how long would it take for you to just accept it?

I'm also assuming you wouldn't object to it at all.

Black Cat Gypsy said:
The IRA. There is no justification for killing innocent people.
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Well you'd be wrong.

The British killed way more innocent children in Ireland over the years.

Which I agree there is no justification for.
 
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CatRyan said:
Are you serious?

France did none of those things.

Because of a lamentable inability to secure succession the English Crown was challenged by the Duke of Normandy. Not France. He didn't kill 9 in 10 people, you don't all speak French, they aren't still here.


So if France did that how long would it take for you to just accept it?

I'm also assuming you wouldn't object to it at all.



Well you'd be wrong.

The British killed way more innocent children in Ireland over the years.

Which I agree there is no justification for.
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Responsibility for killing

Republican paramilitary groups - 2058
Loyalist paramilitary groups - 1027
British security forces - 363
Persons unknown - 79
Irish security forces - 5


Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

  • 1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
  • 723 (~35%) were civilians
  • 187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
  • 57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
  • 11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces
Of those killed by British security forces:

  • 187 (~51.5%) were civilians
  • 145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
  • 18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
  • 13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces
Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

  • 878 (~85.4%) were civilians
  • 94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
  • 41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
  • 14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces
In all 1788 innocent people were killed in during the Troubles.
 
Black Cat Gypsy said:
Responsibility for killing

Republican paramilitary groups - 2058
Loyalist paramilitary groups - 1027
British security forces - 363
Persons unknown - 79
Irish security forces - 5


Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

  • 1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
  • 723 (~35%) were civilians
  • 187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
  • 57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
  • 11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces
Of those killed by British security forces:

  • 187 (~51.5%) were civilians
  • 145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
  • 18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
  • 13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces
Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

  • 878 (~85.4%) were civilians
  • 94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
  • 41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
  • 14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces
In all 1788 innocent people were killed in during the Troubles.
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Cromwell despatched between 200,000 and 600,000
 
CatRyan said:
No we're not.
We are talking about shelf life.

You can not arbitrarily decide to draw the lines so that you look like the more wronged side you buffoon.
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How far back can you go with this game?

400?
800?
1000 years?

To the start of the act of union?
 
mcq10 said:
How far back can you go with this game?

400?
800?
1000 years?

To the start of the act of union?
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How about we go back to when England wasn't coming over and killing all the Irish and occupying it seeing as that is what the problem is.

Trying to imply that this is about anything else is ridiculous.
 
The argument for Britain keeping NI is that they've been there for so long etc

You can't have it both ways.

The OP is saying the soldier in question is so old he shouldn't be held accountable.

I happen to agree that this Soldier is not the problem and a scapegoat. That is not the same argument though.

tunstallhill said:
depends what he did. his punishment shouldn't be influenced by anything other than what he did
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He was obeying orders.
 
CatRyan said:
No we're not.
We are talking about shelf life.

You can not arbitrarily decide to draw the lines so that you look like the more wronged side you buffoon.
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OK then. How many innocent people did the Vikings kill? The Celts? The Normans? The Romans? The Greeks?

Everyone knows how the British Empire threatened us during the plantations up until the War of Independence. We won and got our freedom and it came with a price. We started killing each other after that during the Civil War.
 
Having read quite a bit about this I would say he knowingly shot unarmed people. He is equivalent to a lot of the terrorists. However they have all been let off so in the spirit of the GFA so should he.
 
Black Cat Gypsy said:
OK then. How many innocent people did the Vikings kill? The Celts? The Normans? The Romans? The Greeks?

Everyone knows how the British Empire threatened us during the plantations up until the War of Independence. We won and got our freedom and it came with a price. We started killing each other after that during the Civil War.
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They're not still in occupation

They didn't eradicate a language, kill most of the population etc

The Vikings actually assimilated into the population very quickly
 
CatRyan said:
How about we go back to when England wasn't coming over and killing all the Irish and occupying it seeing as that is what the problem is.

Trying to imply that this is about anything else is ridiculous.
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Coming over? You live in London.

My family are Irish, I’m English. At what point (and please tell me a date) should they stop blaming me for the apparent “800 years of tyranny” I hear Irish nationalists continuely shout about?
 
mcq10 said:
Coming over? You live in London.

My family are Irish, I’m English. At what point (and please tell me a date) should they stop blaming me for the apparent “800 years of tyranny” I hear Irish nationalists continuely shout about?
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When they fuck off and apologise would do it for me.
 
CatRyan said:
They're not still in occupation

They didn't eradicate a language, kill most of the population etc

The Vikings actually assimilated into the population very quickly
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Sitting here in Donegal and I must have dreamt TG4 and all the road signs and Irish speaking area of the county
 
mcq10 said:
Sitting here in Donegal and I must have dreamt TG4 and all the road signs and Irish speaking area of the county
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Galway and Donegal keep the language alive.
I think you know that the language was pretty much wiped out in 100 years.
 
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