Maja

[hertsmackem]

It doesn't look as if our owners have any money.
It's all well and good asking the fans to turn up in numbers, 110,000+ in the last 3 home games, but the owners need to invest some money or we will be wallowing in mediocrity for a long time.

If we are not going to invest now it’s a bit like playing for a 0-0 having subbed your forwards, let a goal in and your fucked. The play offs are a lottery, 1 mistake could cost us promotion but in reality we have 15 games now that could win us promotion. I know which I would go for with a little investment.

 

[L1lyBrown]

The owners ask us to turn up and we do and that extra money maybe needs to be invested in the first team. As someone said above we don’t need to break the bank (again) just bring a couple of reinforcements with some quality to make sure we have a fighting chance of going up.

Yes I don't think anyone is asking them to throw loads of money at the team.
Investing wisely say £2-3 million would be repaid several times over with promotion and, we still have 1 more year of payments from PL.
Imagine the excuses next year if we are still in League 1 and there won't be anything from that source the following season.

What you can't do, which is the mistake Drumaville made, is spend the entire financial benefit of any promotion on getting there in the first place. It all has to start from a sustainable base. What Charlie means is getting away from the expectation that unlimited funds will be thrown around. I'm not saying investment won't be needed, but it needs to be commensurate with where you are, rather than where you're trying to get to. Probably the best person to explain this was Nicola Cortese - see

You must be logged on to see external links

under "Business style". No owner has an unlimited desire to pour money into a club - Abramovic pulled the plug on pouring money into Chelsea long before his visa problems. Looking at both Short and him, it seems to be around 15% of net worth. Then they say "enough's enough". Controlled investment is one thing, chucking cash around is another. And, wherever possible, you should try to fund it from player sales rather than loans. You often hear the phrase "speculate to accumulate" - a more succinct description of that is gambling. And, as any punter will tell you, gambling only pays when you're winning.

Nearly every business borrows money for long term growth purposes,

 

[hertsmackem]

Yes I don't think anyone is asking them to throw loads of money at the team.
Investing wisely say £2-3 million would be repaid several times over with promotion and, we still have 1 more year of payments from PL.
Imagine the excuses next year if we are still in League 1 and there won't be anything from that source the following season.

I agree but maybe not even £3 mil. Our squad is evens with a few up near the top now. To break clear we need to spend a bit imho

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Yes I don't think anyone is asking them to throw loads of money at the team.
Investing wisely say £2-3 million would be repaid several times over with promotion and, we still have 1 more year of payments from PL.
Imagine the excuses next year if we are still in League 1 and there won't be anything from that source the following season.


Nearly every business borrows money for long term growth purposes,

In a tightly controlled manner, and on the basis of fully researched development plans incorporating payback periods and judgements on return of capital. A million miles away from speculation, or the clearly unplanned and scattergun approach of both Quinn and Short. No responsible business will take on debt without having a pretty shrewd idea of how it's going to be repaid. The unfortunate corollary of this is that most football clubs are run in an entirely irresponsible manner.

 

[The Rat]

Good question, depends on a few things, maybe there will come a point where they think they can’t take it further and sell, or really go for it and find the investment that football needs these days. My gut feel is that they will want us in the big league and see where it takes us.

I might get stick for this, but this was such a good investment opportunity this year for anyone

league one is horrendous, we already have a lot of good players at the club, the old owners pays off the debts, allowing you to cut costs in every department, and minimal investment in the team

this is not a criticism, good luck to them, the PR and feel good factor has been great, but they aren't performing miracles, this was an unbelievable opportunity for any investor

 

[dangermows]

It's happening

 

[Monty's Double]

It's happening

What is?

 

[DJP]

What is?

"It's"

 

[Monument View]

We need to get up this year and invest what is needed to achieve that.
I know that the newness and novelty of this league will evaporate like summer dew if promotion isnt achieved immediately this year.
I get to some extent the propaganda put about that we are a new league one team who are striving for promotion but in my heart and mind the reality with our crowd base and available net resources is that I would still expect us to walk this league compared to other teams and their background and experience of it.
If we are still in this league next year the enthusiam and good will will sink quicker thanone of Charlie Methven's cocktails.
A lot of folk and I include myself amongst them will be desperately disappointed if promotion is not achieved this year.
I believe this is the best chance we will ever have or we could be doomed to be an ingrained league1 team for ever and a day.
The powers that be must invest this month without fail or we will falter I fear.
This is not a league for consolidation ,the league above is.

 

[seanwharton]

In a tightly controlled manner, and on the basis of fully researched development plans incorporating payback periods and judgements on return of capital. A million miles away from speculation, or the clearly unplanned and scattergun approach of both Quinn and Short. No responsible business will take on debt without having a pretty shrewd idea of how it's going to be repaid. The unfortunate corollary of this is that most football clubs are run in an entirely irresponsible manner.

Most football clubs don’t sit at least one league below their natural place and have income which is way more than everyone else in the division.

We have a 20% shareholder who has the ability to invest now and increase the chances of promotion

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Most football clubs don’t sit at least one league below their natural place and have income which is way more than everyone else in the division.

We have a 20% shareholder who has the ability to invest now and increase the chances of promotion

We can already afford what's needed. We actually get no financial benefit from promotion this season. Next year we'll get the year 3 parachute whatever happens. Overspending now will simply mean less in the future. From where we are now, spending more than a couple of million is overkill. Especially as buying players for more than that will be bring wage demands that will unbalance a structure which is already too expensive.

 

[Deleted member 31333]

I agree but maybe not even £3 mil. Our squad is evens with a few up near the top now. To break clear we need to spend a bit imho

Would be interesting to know how much money the owners have put into the club at present just to cover running costs ect. Maybe that's impacting on a transfer budget, either that or they don't have to put money in in which case it would be interesting to know their plan for the championship.

Also think if we don't get promoted it would probably cost more money just to sort out the general runnings of the club. Would also expect us to lose afew of our better players and we'd need to invest to replace them.

We can already afford what's needed. We actually get no financial benefit from promotion this season. Next year we'll get the year 3 parachute whatever happens. Overspending now will simply mean less in the future. From where we are now, spending more than a couple of million is overkill. Especially as buying players for more than that will be bring wage demands that will unbalance a structure which is already too expensive.

How come we'll get no financial benefit? Thought that we'd get a bigger % of the TV money share. Would also get bigger gates & imagine the prize money would be higher in the Championship too.

Understand it's overkill but it isn't if you buy players that you know can make step up & play in the team next year (seeing as we'd have to invest in squad with promotion anyways). If we get promoted then we can put all this talk of wage bills ect behind us

 

[Kevsgreat]

Haven't the owners said their hands are tied with how much they can spend in any case because they signed agreements with the EFL to reign in spending and bring the club back to an even keel?

Would be interesting to see the terms of that agreement, and ask why clubs like Villa haven't had to do the same.

 

[The Rat]

We need to get up this year and invest what is needed to achieve that.
I know that the newness and novelty of this league will evaporate like summer dew if promotion isnt achieved immediately this year.
I get to some extent the propaganda put about that we are a new league one team who are striving for promotion but in my heart and mind the reality with our crowd base and available net resources is that I would still expect us to walk this league compared to other teams and their background and experience of it.
If we are still in this league next year the enthusiam and good will will sink quicker thanone of Charlie Methven's cocktails.
A lot of folk and I include myself amongst them will be desperately disappointed if promotion is not achieved this year.
I believe this is the best chance we will ever have or we could be doomed to be an ingrained league1 team for ever and a day.
The powers that be must invest this month without fail or we will falter I fear.
This is not a league for consolidation ,the league above is.

absolutely agree, fantastic post, well put

I am amazed anyone can disagree with this

we are getting crowds of 35k plus now, we should be investing in the team, not just 1 more player either

I don't see why you'd risk it just to save very small amounts of cash

 

[seanwharton]

We can already afford what's needed. We actually get no financial benefit from promotion this season. Next year we'll get the year 3 parachute whatever happens. Overspending now will simply mean less in the future. From where we are now, spending more than a couple of million is overkill. Especially as buying players for more than that will be bring wage demands that will unbalance a structure which is already too expensive.

I agree on the wages and that includes Grigg who I would imagine earns more than all of our players other than the legacy ones .

We have to spend what is needed though and that for me is bringing in what will almost guarantee the top two

 

[The Rat]

Would be interesting to know how much money the owners have put into the club at present just to cover running costs ect. Maybe that's impacting on a transfer budget, either that or they don't have to put money in in which case it would be interesting to know their plan for the championship.

Also think if we don't get promoted it would probably cost more money just to sort out the general runnings of the club. Would also expect us to lose afew of our better players and we'd need to invest to replace them.



How come we'll get no financial benefit? Thought that we'd get a bigger % of the TV money share. Would also get bigger gates & imagine the prize money would be higher in the Championship too.

Understand it's overkill but it isn't if you buy players that you know can make step up & play in the team next year (seeing as we'd have to invest in squad with promotion anyways). If we get promoted then we can put all this talk of wage bills ect behind us

Exactly, and that is the key point in all of this, now is the time to invest, not chance it and wait till next year, as next year might be a nightmare scenario if we don't go up

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Would be interesting to know how much money the owners have put into the club at present just to cover running costs ect. Maybe that's impacting on a transfer budget, either that or they don't have to put money in in which case it would be interesting to know their plan for the championship.

Also think if we don't get promoted it would probably cost more money just to sort out the general runnings of the club. Would also expect us to lose afew of our better players and we'd need to invest to replace them.



How come we'll get no financial benefit? Thought that we'd get a bigger % of the TV money share. Would also get bigger gates & imagine the prize money would be higher in the Championship too.

Understand it's overkill but it isn't if you buy players that you know can make step up & play in the team next year (seeing as we'd have to invest in squad with promotion anyways). If we get promoted then we can put all this talk of wage bills ect behind us

In the EFL, you get either the divisional share of the EFL deal and PL solidarity payment or the parachute payment if you're due one, plus any televised match fees. So, we get the parachute whichever division we're in. In the absence of that, the benefit's about £6m, but that's not applicable. There might be a small increase in gates (if things continue as they are, we're probably looking at an average of around 32k for this season) and commercial income, but it won't be huge.

 

[Deleted member 31333]

Exactly, and that is the key point in all of this, now is the time to invest, not chance it and wait till next year, as next year might be a nightmare scenario if we don't go up

It's all a gamble like. Do think we'd lose quite afew of our good players if we didn't go up though. Also it clearly isn't helping us retain our top talent. The club have ended up losing highly rated youth players (Greenwood, Stevenson) to premier league teams (Arsenal & Liverpool) so would expect that to continue. We have also lost Asoro & will end up losing Maja. 2 bright hopes that have came through. Obviously likes of Embleton hasn't signed a new deal yet & would imagine premier league teams will be looking there.

Being in League 1 is really bad for the club in general. The club are budgeting for 29k crowds at minute but no way we'd continue to get these numbers with another season in league 1. Still a novelty factor there atm but not getting promoted would lose a lot of the good will. Let's face it, this division is dreadful!

In the EFL, you get either the divisional share of the EFL deal and PL solidarity payment or the parachute payment if you're due one, plus any televised match fees. So, we get the parachute whichever division we're in. In the absence of that, the benefit's about £6m, but that's not applicable. There might be a small increase in gates (if things continue as they are, we're probably looking at an average of around 32k for this season) and commercial income, but it won't be huge.

Thanks.

 

[The Rat]

It's all a gamble like. Do think we'd lose quite afew of our good players if we didn't go up though. Also it clearly isn't helping us retain our top talent. The club have ended up losing highly rated youth players (Greenwood, Stevenson) to premier league teams (Arsenal & Liverpool) so would expect that to continue. We have also lost Asoro & will end up losing Maja. 2 bright hopes that have came through. Obviously likes of Embleton hasn't signed a new deal yet & would imagine premier league teams will be looking there.

Being in League 1 is really bad for the club in general. The club are budgeting for 29k crowds at minute but no way we'd continue to get these numbers with another season in league 1. Still a novelty factor there atm but not getting promoted would lose a lot of the good will. Let's face it, this division is dreadful!



Thanks.

Not all of that is inevitable though

For me there is absolutely no excuse for the owners if they don't tie Embleton down, means they have majorly cocked up.

I agree with the rest like, some fans seem happy with it and not particularly arsed if we don't go up, think they are not living in the reality of the consequences

 

[Windypants]

I always remember being offered this piece of advice, when it comes to investing in your business: don't bet the farm. Whatever we spend this window, it has to be sustainable if nothing changes i.e. we don't get promoted. We could spend ten million and buy four or five players and get a combination of duds, taking time to settle and an injury or two and suddenly, you've got Championship repayments, but League One income. This is not a recipe for success. Prudent spending to improve, but, within the context of our being a L1 club is the sensible (albeit less thrilling for fans) approach. If we get promoted, we spend like a Championship club in the Summer, when we know where we potentially stand.