Jamie Robson, Dundee United player, dresses up as a looky looky man...

[myleftfoot1978]

Did you just assume their gender????

No just I have never seen a women lucky lucky man on all my holidays

 

[Reiver]

You’re talking about hypotheticals. As a rule of thumb if you’re mocking a national stereotype you’re on shaky ground.

As I’ve said above, there’s a bit of room for nuance in these things. As @The Cabbage said - it could come from a place of complete innocence, maybe even admiration.

The instance we’re discussing here simply does not come from that place.

FWIW, you said earlier you’d like to hear some genuine opinions on why this might be racist. You appear to have skipped over them to incorrectly quibble about how the word ‘crying’ might be used and to obfuscate with a load of hypotheticals. Makes a man think you’re really not interested in the other side of the coin.

No I'm not, loads of English dress up on St Patrick's Day .... 'comedy ginger wigs etc'.

You know they do.....

 

[Pink Panther]

No just I have only seen a lucky lucky person of no paticular ethnicity on all my holidays

Tidied

 

[Reiver]

As I said before, ask an Irish person and they’ll tell you one way or another. If there’s a difference in perception from the ‘targeted’ group then they’ll be looked at differently.

What if I ask two Irish people and they have polar opinions .... best of three?

 

[TZMouk]

Why? I’d think it was more racist to refuse to look like them because of the colour of their skin.

 

[safccfas]

Oops you mean Sterling surely or are you deliberately wumming?

Whether or not it's racist depends purely on the lads intention I'd say. It definitely a very provocative and stupid thing to do imo

Oh shit genuine error I meant to type Sterling... can’t even blame auto correct for that one.

In fact who does Sturridge even play for these days ?? Is he still at Liverpool??

Got zero interest in the Premier League these days.

 

[Charmless Man]

No I'm not, loads of English dress up on St Patrick's Day .... 'comedy ginger wigs etc'.

You know they do.....

As a rule I do not go out on that day with good reason so I’ll take your word for it.

That sounds pretty damn distasteful to me.

 

[ontap]

Jamie Robson apologises for 'blacking up' as African salesman

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Bit of a silly thing to do in today’s world, especially after the recent disgusting issues with Sturrige.

However I do wonder if people would moan so much if he went dressed as Homer Simpson ... after all Homers another, non flattering, sterotype

Sturridge ? have i missed something ?

I think the phrase ‘crying racism’ is a problematic starting point. Who is crying racism? In what way is pointing out awful behaviour crying?

The problem with blackface more or less stems from its use as a form of entertainment in the states. It’s literally the cultural package the idea that people of African heritage are lazy and incompetent was sent around the world in.

So anything that uses the same medium to portray a stereotype of black people, no matter what the original intent, is a bit of an issue.

And fwiw, in this instance I can’t possibly see what positive motive was behind it? At best it’s ignorant, at worst it’s laughing at impoverished migrants trying to earn a few Euros for his and his friends’ enjoyment.

I’m not in the camp that says it should be banned, I’m merely in the camp that thinks anyone who does it is a bit of a wanker.



Forget ‘crying racism’. This right here, is what hysteria looks like.

So your actually saying that dressing up as a luckt lucky man for a fancy dress night out is being " a wanker " ?

In 2018 there are no circumstances I can think of where "blacking up" can realistically be anything other than provocative at the least and intentionally racist at the other extreme. The notion that anyone would do it without recognising the possible implications is difficult to comprehend but it is possible he is that much of an idiot. Nobody needs to black up, it's stupid, isn't funny and belongs in the past.

Good God , what a load of twaddle.

In 2018 there is absolutely nothing imo that can be construed as either racist or even causing offence by someone going to fancy dress as a "lucky lucky Man"
The "precious" idiots saying otherwise, to use your word , are best ignored .

 

[Kidder_wolf_ii]

How did Robert Downey Jr get away with it in Tropic Thunder?

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[Reiver]

As a rule I do not go out on that day with good reason so I’ll take your word for it.

That sounds pretty damn distasteful to me.

So you don't know what happens, on that day, but you have a good reason for not going out of the house ....yeah OK mate

 

[Charmless Man]

So you don't know what happens, on that day, but you have a good reason for not going out of the house ....yeah OK mate

I’ve been out on paddies day once, quite a few years ago, probably about a decade, and it was the least enjoyable few hours I’ve ever spent in a pub.

Can’t say I saw any comedy ginger wigs, lots of Guinness hats though. Which is why I’ll have to take your word for it if things have changed in recent years.

You keep focusing on the important points though!

 

[Captain Calamity]

If someone is offended by another person's words or actions, be it racist, sexist, any other kind of -ist, or just generally disgusting, then the action must de facto be offensive, even where there was no intent to cause offence. If I inadvertently say something to someone that offends them (and, let's face it, we all have), then I'd be apologising the moment I realised.

That's not strictly true though. In the gay marriage cake saga in Northern Ireland, the customer's order was refused by the bakery. The customer stated that he was offended and "It made me feel unworthy, a lesser person." The Supreme Court ruled this year that the bakery were legally entitled to refuse to bake the cake stating “The bakers could not refuse to supply their goods to Mr Lee because he was a gay man or supported gay marriage, but that is quite different from obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed.” So, my point is that it is not accurate to generalise and state "If someone is offended by another person's words or actions, be it racist, sexist, any other kind of -ist, or just generally disgusting, then the action must de facto be offensive, even where there was no intent to cause offence.."

Just saying..

It's also a question of perception by the group which is potentially offended; what's known as unconscious racism. In other words, something which the perpetrator (for want of a better word) thinks is entirely innocent, but is perceived by the affected group as offensive. I'm pretty confident that this player isn't racist in the sense of actively despising a minority,or thinking they're in some way inferior, but has done something, without thinking it through, which is likely to be perceived as such.

Don't disagree with this however...just saying

 

[Reiver]

I’ve been out on paddies day once, quite a few years ago, probably about a decade, and it was the least enjoyable few hours I’ve ever spent in a pub.

Can’t say I saw any comedy ginger wigs, lots of Guinness hats though. Which is why I’ll have to take your word for it if things have changed in recent years.

You keep focusing on the important points though!

A term considered to be racist, derogatory and offensive by some, nice one.

 

[Jasper]

That’s not racist

I love pulp fiction and was gonna dress up as Jules and black myself up a while ago, only didn’t because I didn’t have a suit to match

I wasn’t being racist at all

I’ve done it once many years ago for similar readons. I went to a 70s party as Shaft. Considering myself to be a massive racist now.

I think the phrase ‘crying racism’ is a problematic starting point. Who is crying racism? In what way is pointing out awful behaviour crying?

The problem with blackface more or less stems from its use as a form of entertainment in the states. It’s literally the cultural package the idea that people of African heritage are lazy and incompetent was sent around the world in.

So anything that uses the same medium to portray a stereotype of black people, no matter what the original intent, is a bit of an issue.

And fwiw, in this instance I can’t possibly see what positive motive was behind it? At best it’s ignorant, at worst it’s laughing at impoverished migrants trying to earn a few Euros for his and his friends’ enjoyment.

I’m not in the camp that says it should be banned, I’m merely in the camp that thinks anyone who does it is a bit of a wanker.



Forget ‘crying racism’. This right here, is what hysteria looks like.

It’s got nowt to do with the ‘blackface tradition’ at all.

 

[Charmless Man]

A term considered to be racist, derogatory and offensive by some, nice one.

Context - Paddy is a slur if used to describe some generic Irishman. Not if used to describe someone whose name is/was actually Patrick and who wasn’t actually Irish

You keep on those important points, though.

 

[Exapno Mapcase]

Good God , what a load of twaddle.

In 2018 there is absolutely nothing imo that can be construed as either racist or even causing offence by someone going to fancy dress as a "lucky lucky Man"
The "precious" idiots saying otherwise, to use your word , are best ignored .

I think "idiot" was my word, which would require the quotation marks. "Precious" seems to be the term for people who want to protect their right to continue with their outmoded, often offensive, nineteenth century racism, on the grounds that is "our tradition" and that anyone who questions it has no sense of humour.
Still, the world is full of opinions and you are entitled to yours.

 

[Katylala]

Over sensitive world we live in

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

The problem I have with the idea of "blacking up is always wrong" is that it isn't a new idea. Anyone see the film "The Book Thief"? Fictional, I know, but the principle is exactly as it would have been. A young German lad, blond hair, would make a good Aryan, and wanted to be a sprinter. He saw the Berlin Olympics, he really admired Jesse Owens, and he wanted to become Jesse Owens. So not only did he practice his running, but he also got some shoe polish and blacked himself up. The Nazis, predictably enough, were as outraged then as many people would be today.

Any time that we're standing side by side with Adolf Hitler, we need to think again about whether we are really doing the right thing.

Fuck. Me

 

[Reiver]

Context - Paddy is a slur if used to describe some generic Irishman. Not if used to describe someone whose name is/was actually Patrick and who wasn’t actually Irish

You keep on those important points, though.

Which is exactly what you did

I don't even know what points you've made, I doubt you do tbh.

 

[Geronimo]

But it's ok to black up to play Othello ?