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Fourth Test Team

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It really baffles me the argument that someone who has scored runs at 4,5,6 in the order need to bat in the exact same postition to get the best out of them.

Does one place in the middle order make that much difference? people like Bairstow,Root,Stokes etc have scored runs in the past because they are quality players and there have been times when they have been in great nick.


Surely them are the reasons they have scored runs not because they happened to bat 5 instead of 6 or vice versa.

Form and quality are surely more important than the actual postition in the order?
 

Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Cook won't play because his wife is expecting iirc. So Jennings will stay, but surely a stay of execution for only one game.

Modern at three is an interesting one. Must be the only position we haven't tried him at! His record is best at 4 and 7 I think - he got a big hundred against the Indians at four, I think, over there? That said, three is where he bats for his county - and so there is a nice feel to this team in that both him, Pope and Root are batting at their county numbers.

I'm sorry though, I know he dug in yesterday and he deserves some plaudits for that. But Stokesy is not fluent enough to bat five at the moment and I think it's a bridge too far for him. You'd probably be better off switching him with Buttler, but personally I'd probably keep him at six, keep Buttler at seven and have Pope in at five. Bit of pressure on the lad but welcome to the big league.

Having said all that - these, bar Cook, are the right eleven players for me. Rashid is useful only against the tail, but we can afford that given our all-round options. In fact in general, I feel we should be more aggressive: we have incredible middle order batsman / all-rounders. Let's pick six bowlers and go all-court. It's up to the top four to sort themselves out.



A confidence player - when he's on form, he's a match-winner. If the selectors ignore him they want f***ing shooting frankly.
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Another quality post. Let's have your team then.

brandon said:
There’s still four seamers in that side, so I just think why not? Ali has just scored a double hundred batting in his best position of 3 and we’re desperate for a number 3 so that’s why I’d stick him in.

Root like Kohli would be best served at 4 IMO.

Pope bats 6 for Surrey, I’d like to see him there for England.

Rashid at 9, bowling a few overs here and there is a luxury I feel we can afford. Only alternative I’d employ would be to play someone like Clarke instead of him but that would mean a proper batsman would be at 8 - are we that desperate?!



Vile selection. Just fuck off.
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Yup. My thoughts too.
 
Lads, they're picking Vince.

Words fail me.

brandon said:
There’s still four seamers in that side, so I just think why not? Ali has just scored a double hundred batting in his best position of 3 and we’re desperate for a number 3 so that’s why I’d stick him in.

Root like Kohli would be best served at 4 IMO.

Pope bats 6 for Surrey, I’d like to see him there for England.

Rashid at 9, bowling a few overs here and there is a luxury I feel we can afford. Only alternative I’d employ would be to play someone like Clarke instead of him but that would mean a proper batsman would be at 8 - are we that desperate?!



Vile selection. Just fuck off.
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It's a f***ing insult to grafters like Burns and Hildreth. And young'uns like Clarke and Gubbins.

Then there is Modern. I mean sure, Vince is playing well. And when you think about it, other than the fact Modern averages about fifteen better than him in tests, with five more centuries, is the country's best off-spinner and has hit over 300 in his last two knocks, there's very little to choose between them.

The Times sums it up: "His average is also worst than Alex Hales, Mark Stoneman, Nick Compton, Michael Carberry, Eoin Morgan, Sam Robson, Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali and Haseeb Hameed".
 
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Silly Point said:
f***ing Vince to be recalled according to the Guardian. I f***ing give in.
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And the Times and the Telegraph.

#PrayforBairstowsfinger.

Charlie Chimp said:
Another quality post. Let's have your team then.
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Ok.

So in the back of my head I have a long-term vision for the team I think should start the home ashes next year.

Bairstow
Gubbins/Cook
Burns
Root
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Archer/Curran/Broad
Rashid/Leach
Anderson

The question marks surround the fact I think Cook may retire at the end of this series (perhaps before being pushed) and I think Broad is only a minor niggle away from it too. I think Archer will be fast-tracked, especially if Broad does go, and with his talent, pace, action and a first class average of 22 (or thereabouts) he waltzes into the team if available. Rashid is probably more useful in English conditions than Leach unless its actually turning - but the whole purpose of this team is to build it around that dynamic 5-8 and create an all court team that is bold about having bowlers for all eventualities. After, all most of them can bat a bit. The big call to facilitate that is Bairstow at opener, which is a complete punt - but its worth a go, assuming you have a Burns type character at three.

And this is the problem - the options for the next test are nowhere near this and I don't think there's any f***ing strategy to selection at all. It's pin the tail on the donkey time. Smith is a bit luckier with his pins than Bayliss - but the vision for the team is allover the shop. I mean, bringing in Pope at four is crackers. But we don't need to nurture another number 6 - we have four world-class number sixes already! So I'd continue to test him at four (and Root at three) and go:

Jennings/Cook (Cook if available)
Burns
Root
Pope
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
 
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Voice of fair play said:
It really baffles me the argument that someone who has scored runs at 4,5,6 in the order need to bat in the exact same postition to get the best out of them.

Does one place in the middle order make that much difference? people like Bairstow,Root,Stokes etc have scored runs in the past because they are quality players and there have been times when they have been in great nick.


Surely them are the reasons they have scored runs not because they happened to bat 5 instead of 6 or vice versa.

Form and quality are surely more important than the actual postition in the order?
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Wey its true with Root, he is captaining all day, and coming in after a few overs

He should never ever be batting at 3
 
Parkside said:
Vince is a class act apart from the persistently irritating habit of chasing wide offside deliveries which he doesn't have to play. Perhaps his vastly improved average this season is because he's finally eradicated that fault. In which case there's an argument for his recall.
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different pressure though, you can just see what will happen
 
Parkside said:
Vince is a class act apart from the persistently irritating habit of chasing wide offside deliveries which he doesn't have to play. Perhaps his vastly improved average this season is because he's finally eradicated that fault. In which case there's an argument for his recall.
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Averaging 56 and just scored big in their recent game. Worth a gamble for me
 
I’m happy to see Vince given another chance. Mainly because I think Pope is in the team far too soon to make a reasonable judgement on him, and we need some stability going into the winter & next summer. Jennings will also be gone so we will need to find 2 batsman at least.

I’m not saying he’s my ideal choice but there really is not much else knocking the door down to get in the side apart from Mo.

He’s an elegant player to watch to be fair to him and he’s shown glimpses that he’s got the ability at this level.
 
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