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Pope replaces Malan for second test

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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
Pope is much better, statistically. I'm excited to have a look at him, Alec Stewart reckons he's the best Surrey have ever had at his age.
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And I'm pleased they've picked him, England have waited far too long and/or not called up players when they're in form for years. Maybe Ed Smith has something about him.

Just that Livingstone was player of the month for July and has had a couple of the ECB coaches up at OT before his injury, I think he was (eventually) going to be next up.

And I love Alec Stewart to bits, but he doesn't half spout a lot of crap. Let's call it over-enthusiastic......
 

Steak Pie said:
And I'm pleased they've picked him, England have waited far too long and/or not called up players when they're in form for years. Maybe Ed Smith has something about him.

Just that Livingstone was player of the month for July and has had a couple of the ECB coaches up at OT before his injury, I think he was (eventually) going to be next up.

And I love Alec Stewart to bits, but he doesn't half spout a lot of crap. Let's call it over-enthusiastic......
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The thing about Livingstone is that I don't think his batting style aligns well with the current middle order options. He's quite a bottom-handed, hard-hitter isn't he, which makes him quite similar to Stokes, Bairstow and Buttler.

I think we want a bit more of a technician - someone like Clarke would have been my pick, only because I freely admit to knowing literally nothing about Pope and how he plays. You can't say it's wrong though - he's the standout batsman in the Championship and is 20. I'm excited to see him? I wonder if Bairstow will move up to four?

In general, I would add that whilst I haven't agreed with all of this calls - I'm not convinced about Buttler at all - the decisiveness that Smith has brought to selection is very welcome. You can see what he is thinking too - there seemed to be almost no strategy before.
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
The thing about Livingstone is that I don't think his batting style aligns well with the current middle order options. He's quite a bottom-handed, hard-hitter isn't he, which makes him quite similar to Stokes, Bairstow and Buttler.

I think we want a bit more of a technician - someone like Clarke would have been my pick, only because I freely admit to knowing literally nothing about Pope and how he plays. You can't say it's wrong though - he's the standout batsman in the Championship and is 20. I'm excited to see him? I wonder if Bairstow will move up to four?

In general, I would add that whilst I haven't agreed with all of this calls - I'm not convinced about Buttler at all - the decisiveness that Smith has brought to selection is very welcome. You can see what he is thinking too - there seemed to be almost no strategy before.
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He matured at lot last season when the gave him the captaincy at Lancs, he's much more than a hitter. He sees himself as England's number 3 for the next decade and I think he's worked at his game accordingly.

I'm the same with Pope, more than happy to see him called up early. If Buttler is going to play as a specialist batsman (and remember, his fans will tell you he's a special talent, a world class bat), then surely he would move up into an actual batting spot? *sarcasm*
 
Steak Pie said:
He matured at lot last season when the gave him the captaincy at Lancs, he's much more than a hitter. He sees himself as England's number 3 for the next decade and I think he's worked at his game accordingly.

I'm the same with Pope, more than happy to see him called up early. If Buttler is going to play as a specialist batsman (and remember, his fans will tell you he's a special talent, a world class bat), then surely he would move up into an actual batting spot? *sarcasm*
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A genuine number three would be brilliant. Because we all know Root would be happier at four.
 
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Steak Pie said:
He matured at lot last season when the gave him the captaincy at Lancs, he's much more than a hitter. He sees himself as England's number 3 for the next decade and I think he's worked at his game accordingly.

I'm the same with Pope, more than happy to see him called up early. If Buttler is going to play as a specialist batsman (and remember, his fans will tell you he's a special talent, a world class bat), then surely he would move up into an actual batting spot? *sarcasm*
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Pope has as many first class centuries as Buttler.

7 years ago.

70 matches fewer
 
chunkylover53 said:
Pope has as many first class centuries as Buttler.

7 years ago.

70 matches fewer
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I can't believe they've made him VC for the series. What happens if Moeen comes in for Stokes in this test, blasts a hundred and/or takes a five-for? Say Rashid also takes a five-for - it is a spinners wicket, by all accounts - what will they do? Drop Moeen? Drop Curran? Drop Stokes? Drop Rashid? Drop Pope after one game!!?

f***ing daft - Ali is a better batsman and gives us an option with the ball. Likewise any of the other very talented all-rounders we have. I just don't see why a number seven should not be contributing on the other side of the ball - seems crazy when we have a variety of talented options who can. Or you can pick Stokes at seven and get another batsman in who is infinitely better than Buttler. You know, a real specialist.

I mean, Moeen averages 45 at number seven - and has five test match hundreds. Which is precisely five more than Buttler.

He's not even got the gloves ffs.

I mean, it's fair enough Smith wants to give the lad a crack. But to make him VC and signal he is not going to be dropped for the series, seems ridiculous. There are very few players in this team who are beyond dropping - Stokes, Root, Anderson and Bairstow: that's about it. The VC should be one of them. Aye, its pointless, but it sends the wrong message on selection re: Buttler.
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
I can't believe they've made him VC for the series. What happens if Moeen comes in for Stokes in this test, blasts a hundred and/or takes a five-for? Say Rashid also takes a five-for - it is a spinners wicket, by all accounts - what will they do? Drop Moeen? Drop Curran? Drop Stokes? Drop Rashid? Drop Pope after one game!!?

f***ing daft - Ali is a better batsman and gives us an option with the ball. Likewise any of the other very talented all-rounders we have. I just don't see why a number seven should not be contributing on the other side of the ball - seems crazy when we have a variety of talented options who can. Or you can pick Stokes at seven and get another batsman in who is infinitely better than Buttler. You know, a real specialist.

I mean, Moeen averages 45 at number seven - and has five test match hundreds. Which is precisely five more than Buttler.

He's not even got the gloves ffs.

I mean, it's fair enough Smith wants to give the lad a crack. But to make him VC and signal he is not going to be dropped for the series, seems ridiculous. There are very few players in this team who are beyond dropping - Stokes, Root, Anderson and Bairstow: that's about it. The VC should be one of them. Aye, its pointless, but it sends the wrong message on selection re: Buttler.
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Better batsman, like whom? The reason Buttler was brought in to the side was because we can't find anyone to come in and perform on the big stage. Ali was so out of form he couldn't be picked. Buttler was chosen because he can perform against the best in limited overs cricket and is obviously a massive talent, yes it's a bit of a gamble but one I personally felt was worth taking. There's no point jumping on his back after one poor match either.

Imo he should have the gloves. It looks like Bairstow may shift up the order another place, it makes no sense to have him keeping as well. If it turns out Buttler is not up to it then a decision can be made whether we bring in another keeper or give the gloves back to Bairstow.
 
SAFC 83 said:
Better batsman, like whom? The reason Buttler was brought in to the side was because we can't find anyone to come in and perform on the big stage. Ali was so out of form he couldn't be picked. Buttler was chosen because he can perform against the best in limited overs cricket and is obviously a massive talent, yes it's a bit of a gamble but one I personally felt was worth taking. There's no point jumping on his back after one poor match either.

Imo he should have the gloves. It looks like Bairstow may shift up the order another place, it makes no sense to have him keeping as well. If it turns out Buttler is not up to it then a decision can be made whether we bring in another keeper or give the gloves back to Bairstow.
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To be clear, I'm not piling in and saying he should be dropped. He's been given a crack and should be given chance to find out if he can cut it once and for all. That wouldn't have been my call, but Smith has made a decision.

What I'm saying is its absolutely absurd he's been made vice-captain. He should in no way be considered a fixture in the side - if he fails for a few tests and other lads come in then no he should not be in the side.

As for better batsman - I think a few have emerged. Our real trouble is higher up the order - I'd be tempted to push Stokes down (if available) and have specialist top order batsmen in. Or play Ali, as I said. I think there are a fair few better batsman than Buttler - I think first class cricket, the long-form, matters more for batsman than ODI - sorry, that's how I see it. So for me the likes of Clarke, Gubbins, Pope, Livngstone, Burns definitely would be ahead of him in the queue.
 
Comeback_Kenwyne said:
To be clear, I'm not piling in and saying he should be dropped. He's been given a crack and should be given chance to find out if he can cut it once and for all. That wouldn't have been my call, but Smith has made a decision.

What I'm saying is its absolutely absurd he's been made vice-captain. He should in no way be considered a fixture in the side - if he fails for a few tests and other lads come in then no he should not be in the side.

As for better batsman - I think a few have emerged. Our real trouble is higher up the order - I'd be tempted to push Stokes down (if available) and have specialist top order batsmen in. Or play Ali, as I said. I think there are a fair few better batsman than Buttler - I think first class cricket, the long-form, matters more for batsman than ODI - sorry, that's how I see it. So for me the likes of Clarke, Gubbins, Pope, Livngstone, Burns definitely would be ahead of him in the queue.
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On the VC thing I honestly don't think it means that much mate. I suppose it could of went to Bairstow but they won't want him to have anymore on his plate. Presumably the coaching staff must consider him a good leader and think he would be the next best captain, that's the only message it sends to me. At the end of the day, if he performs poorly he'll be dropped the VC won't save him.

As for the other batsmen you listed, they certainly could of been given a chance ahead of Buttler on their championship records but how many players have we been through lately, who have also had better records? Plenty, anyway, that's why Buttler got another chance as he's proving in international cricket. Tbh I wouldn't of minded if they hadn't chosen Buttler and had went with someone else but I do think it would be a shame because personally I feel he has got the ability to be a test player
 
chunkylover53 said:
Was a simple fact.

I’ve already said I hope he comes good. He’s 28 next week btw.
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Hes 28 and has already come good at his peak as a world class cricketer, he has just come back into test cricket and has had a huge influence in his only completed series so far. He made you look daft once and will continue to do so every time you come out with puerile comments.
 
rentaghost said:
Hes 28 and has already come good at his peak as a world class cricketer, he has just come back into test cricket and has had a huge influence in his only completed series so far. He made you look daft once and will continue to do so every time you come out with puerile comments.
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Are you his dad or something?
 
rentaghost said:
So only playing one series since his return, being top run scorer in the series, man of the match in one of the tests hasn’t made you look a bit daft. In fairness there’s no knocking you back still dishing out the sarcastic stuff.
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He scored some runs and played well. I said that.

But he’s far from nailed his place down.
 
chunkylover53 said:
He scored some runs and played well. I said that.

But he’s far from nailed his place down.
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You never miss an opportunity to belittle his achievements, it’s easy to see why the poster you replied to said what he said.

I’m not sure you do hope he “comes good” at all (putting aside the fact that by any reasonable person’s standards he already has) as you appear desperate for him to fail just to be able to say you were right.

And now you’ve joined steak pie in having a hard on for Liam Livingstone.

It’s pretty embarrassing mate.
 
Salem Street South said:
You never miss an opportunity to belittle his achievements, it’s easy to see why the poster you replied to said what he said.

I’m not sure you do hope he “comes good” at all (putting aside the fact that by any reasonable person’s standards he already has) as you appear desperate for him to fail just to be able to say you were right.

And now you’ve joined steak pie in having a hard on for Liam Livingstone.

It’s pretty embarrassing mate.
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Of course I want him to do well. I hope he scores a ton on Saturday when I’m there

I have said that 2 tests isn’t “coming good” and that 4 first class tons at 28 isn’t proven. I’ve also said many times he is a supreme white ball player

I haven’t commented on Livingstone have I? You’ve just made that up
 
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