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How long can Rafa last?

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rentaghost said:
Perez was very good in the top flight the season before
Colback was a mainstay in your team that got promoted and other teams prior to that
Sammy Ameobi is Bolton's best player from what i saw and easily good enough to be effective at that level
Mitrovic for all his madness is a successful international footballer and a cut above the championship

Most team in the championship would take all of those players in a heartbeat. I think some of the criticism of rafa on here is daft and born out of jealousy however making out he had a group of shit players to build on is equally daft.
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You are kidding ...? :eek::oops:
 
samaistonsrightfoot said:
Joselu was on a budget because most of it was waxed on Murphy. Similar to Moyes waxing most of his budget on Ndong who was also a player signed more for the future, to the depriment of the team, as we needed someone who would make an immediate impact. But just like Moyes, you can't go around blaming budget when you've spent half of it on a player you won't play. Gayle will get goals in this league. Not as many as a 15+ striker but more than Joselu given a run of games so makes his signing quite moot, especially considering you have Mitrovic as well for back up.
Atsu was an odd one. Did OKish in the championship when he played but his fee plus 5 million saved on Joselu would have got a better player in.
Lejuene is still an unknown quantity as has been injured for a while but yous have won more when he hasn't played.
Manquillo could only have been signed as a back up and is a right back playing left back.

Ritchie has been his best signing by far imo which seems to correlate with Benitez' record in the market but bar him your best players this season have been Lascelles, Shelvey and Elliot (although I'm only really including Elliot as he is first choice keeper and best in that position) who, after 100 million worth of players brought in, aren't Benitez signings.


As I've said, I think he's a decent manager. Could he have had more to spend in the summer? Possibly. Could he have spent more wisely? Certainly
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But then it's a complex issue. It's not just about having £15m to spend on a striker, it's the needs of the squad, would a £15m striker actually want to come to a newly promoted side, what about the wages for a £15m striker, what about a £15m striker who plays in the system that gets the most from the squad we have. What if that striker gets injured in the first weekend?

fwiw, I think Murphy will keep being gradually introduced to the first team and his game time will increase steadily. Personally, I think we should have done as much business as possible in January, avoiding the inflated market, getting the new players bedded in against lesser opposition before a challenging season in the top flight and so on, but Ashley refused to loosen the purse strings.

I think there's a few signings that made sense at the time, signings that were derided on here; Gayle, D.Murphy, Ritchie, Hanley and Clark. Hanley and Murphy were savvy signings. These are two players experienced at that level, professional, hard, reliable men. That we didn't really lose much money on them goes in the positive column too.

End of the day though, it's rare you can look back on a manager's transfer record and say he couldn't have done better.
 
jonny gently said:
You are kidding ...? :eek::oops:
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Despite your :oops: we are only talking about whether 4 players are CHAMPIONSHIP quality. So who out of Colback, Perez, Mitrovic or sammy Ameobi do you think is not good enough for the CHAMPIONSHIP. When you have agreed with me that all of them are good enough for the CHAMPIONSHIP which you will do because they are, then ask yourself why you ended your post with a :oops:

;)
 
samaistonsrightfoot said:
Got to laugh like. Signs up to a rivals board, pretending to be a Sunderland fan and when caught starts posting as a mag demanding Sunderland fans don't care about their rivals because he doesn't. Unlike a number of people on here I quite like having debates with mags and a fair few of them are decent enough but this fella has got to be one of the weirdest.
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He doesn't care about us but he did post on here pretending to be a lads fan, or in his words "a covert op behind enemy lines" which of course makes it sound completely normal :lol:

Even for a Mag that is something special
 
Fulwell87 said:
Pathetic and petty. There has been 11 games.

Benitez is an elite coach and manager.

Which one of the 3 managers has been to the UEFA Champions League Final 4 times and irrespective of silly short term comparisons is adored and respected universally by his fan base?
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So, using that criteria, would you say at that time Benitez WAS a better manager, or at this moment in time, still believe he is a better manager ? Just wondering like
 
If you look at his relative 'successes' they were winning La Liga with the Valencia team he inherited from Hector Cuper and winning the Champs League with the Liverpool team he inherited from Houllier. That suggests he has some ability as a coach but his record when he has to start dismantling and rebuilding is very ordinary. That would be a massive worry to me if I was planning to buy a club and hand him a shitload of cash to spend.
 
4everredandwhite said:
So, using that criteria, would you say at that time Benitez WAS a better manager, or at this moment in time, still believe he is a better manager ? Just wondering like
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Is Grayson a better manager than Hughton and Wagner? He’s already better than Benitez in your opinion.
 
The Fish said:
But then it's a complex issue. It's not just about having £15m to spend on a striker, it's the needs of the squad, would a £15m striker actually want to come to a newly promoted side, what about the wages for a £15m striker, what about a £15m striker who plays in the system that gets the most from the squad we have. What if that striker gets injured in the first weekend?

fwiw, I think Murphy will keep being gradually introduced to the first team and his game time will increase steadily. Personally, I think we should have done as much business as possible in January, avoiding the inflated market, getting the new players bedded in against lesser opposition before a challenging season in the top flight and so on, but Ashley refused to loosen the purse strings.

I think there's a few signings that made sense at the time, signings that were derided on here; Gayle, D.Murphy, Ritchie, Hanley and Clark. Hanley and Murphy were savvy signings. These are two players experienced at that level, professional, hard, reliable men. That we didn't really lose much money on them goes in the positive column too.

End of the day though, it's rare you can look back on a manager's transfer record and say he couldn't have done better.
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Wages will have an effect. The number of players that have signed on inflated deals then subsequently given increases on promotion will be having a negative effect funds this window. Something that is often neglected by the Ashley haters and a lot of the media despite issues in the summer selling players on but the thread is about Wagner and Hughton having a similar, if not better start to the season than NUFC who have brought in double the value of players in the same period of time so if they can do it, why can't NUFC? Wages would certainly be a hinderance, but if the inflated wages are causing problems signing players this season then where does that responsibility lie?

In terms of players derided I think the main reason Gayle was, was because he was brought in for a relatively large fee, and was already behind Wickham in the Palace pecking order (for whatever reason) so looked unlikely that he would be able to make the move up, which as he is now playing second fiddle to Joselu looks to again be the case. This was countered by your supporters who said you would just sell him on at a profit and buy better which neither has happened. No doubt his goals got you promoted though which of course was the target. Murphy was a 5 million signing (the same as you have now paid for a first choice striker) on decent wages as a 3rd choice striker. Hardly played and scored some crucial goals. Not sure if you got any money back for him but if you did then will have been a decent signing. Ritchie is his best signing and despite not really excelling for Bournemouth (in the prem) has been very good on the whole despite the inflated transfer fee. Hanley was poor. You needed back up but again it was a decent sized fee for him. Is he still at the club? No idea how much you paid for Clark but from reports was one of your better players last season who has now been dropped for Lejuene who, although early days seems to keep featuring when you lose. I'd say Hayden was one of the better signings.

Comparably Brighton brought in Murray for 3.5 million who scored the same amount as Gayle, and is still playing/scoring in the prem for a fraction of the cost and brought in Duffy for the same fee as Hanley, and despite looking calamitous at times for Blackburn is now doing well in the prem. The rest were loans which helped them get promoted then got their wages of the books immediately upon promotion giving them a cleaner slate to bring in improvements. Propper, Izquiedo and Gross came in for approx 30 million and the 3, especially Gross, have immediately improved their side and they are stating to look quite comfortable. Even more so now their players have settled. NUFC on the other hand have won 1 in 6 and seem to be getting worse as the season goes on although I do think you will stay up even with/without January spending mainly because of Benitez' ability of organising a side.

I think Benitez gets the best out of the players he has, but as I've said his best players this season have been ones he didn't sign despite bringing in 100 million worth of them, especially when Brighton have shown that players can be brought in for less and perform better. That's why I don't think he's suited to smaller clubs where budgets can be tight. As the bring 10 players in a season, as a couple of them will turn out to be good, has more of an effect on clubs with smaller budgets.
 
4everredandwhite said:
Sima, give it a rest ! Once again you have taken my comment out of context to suit your agenda, besides can he not reply for himself or are you his minder ?
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In no context whatsoever is Simon Grayson a better manager than Rafa Benitez. You’re an absolute fuckwit if you think otherwise.

Are you a fuckwit?
 
Show me my quotes in their ENTIRETY Sima, as I say not bits to suit your agenda. Your colourful language suggests you are getting a wee bit rattled btw
 
Sima said:
In no context whatsoever is Simon Grayson a better manager than Rafa Benitez. You’re an absolute fuckwit if you think otherwise.

Are you a fuckwit?
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Shall I tell you EXACTLY what I said Sima, without being clever enough to trawl back through my posts ?
 
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