More investigations for the mags from HMRC?

[shepherd88]

Class. So is this thread we are all become forensic accountants and scrutinise nufc accounts and any comments they make? Might as well throw in some extreme possiblities as well.

Hopefully I'll learn something from the thread.

 

[Fetch Fletch]

Class. So is this thread we are all become forensic accountants and scrutinise nufc accounts and any comments they make? Might as well throw in some extreme possiblities as well.

Hopefully I'll learn something from the thread.

The butler did it marra

 

[The Fish]

Here's a little suggestion petal:

Why don't you be a dear and read the article that was linked in the frigging OP? Then you wouldn't need to keep asking us questions that have been answered by the self same article?

Because, flower, I can't be arsed to trawl through 12 pages of this when it's easier to ask someone as the conversation is ongoing.

Interesting to see the sum total of those transfers is c£17m, yet the conversation on here is focussed on £500m which is the absolute maximum. And it's not even about money spent on transfers, it's about agent fees, so substantially less than the £17m. But I've read on here that 10% of £500m is £50m, so that's what we could end up paying...

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Class. So is this thread we are all become forensic accountants and scrutinise nufc accounts and any comments they make? Might as well throw in some extreme possiblities as well.

Hopefully I'll learn something from the thread.

And you think I sound like Des

 

[horselover]

Convincing needn't be "forcing", it can be reasoning, arguing, influencing, or guiding, or cajoling. I could convince someone that Arrichi's ice cream is the best in the region without "forcing" them to agree. But then you know that full well. If your argument consists of quibbling over semantics, don't you think it's a bit silly?

Ashley has, on a number of occasions proven his loyalty to friends and colleagues at Newcastle. However if it saves his investment, I'm comfortable with Charnley being thrown under the bus. However, nobody knows what the outcome will be and yet you've stated that a custodial sentence is almost certain.

The fairly obvious point I was making, way back when, is that without knowing enough facts, or there being a sufficiently similar situation recently that set precedent, it's pointless to make predictions about winding up orders, transfer embargos, or expulsion from the league.

If nothing like that happens, you'll look very foolish.

IF yous are found guilty, and only IF, Charnley will almost certainly be handed a custodial sentence, as will Lambias, as will any other individual who is involved. The club will be punished certainly, possible relegation, possible transfer ban, heavily fined is a given. But its only IF yous are found guilty. On the other hand yous might be innocent of all allegations against yous, in which there'll be nowt for newcastle to worry about

 

[The Fish]

it just doesn't relate to those up the road (if it does, you are in even more bother) but I suspect a few others will be involved.

What is alleged is actually cheating on the footballing side, as other clubs are restricted (allegedly) by the fair play rules. by doing what they are doing it is quite possible they are allowing there spending to be even greater, which is detrimental to somebody obeying the rules. then there is the taxman side. dont want to upset the taxman is pretty good rule. even if you win, it will cost money

I suppose if Newcastle used nefarious means to outmanoeuvre FFP rules there could be sanctions, but given our financial situation, I can't see that being the motivating factor. If we did pay agents under the table, it wasn't to find a loophole in FFP, it's to sweeten the deal by avoiding tax. If that's the case I absolutely think there'll be a fine from HMRC, but even if it's the total tax owed, plus a penalty, that is unlikely to be enough that Newcastle United would face winding up orders.

I agree with your first sentence, I cannot believe for a second that we're alone in dodgy tax avoidance (if we are), and the more involved the better for us. If, say, there's a cadre of Premier League sides involved like West Ham, Crystal Palace, yourselves, the HMRC fines may be large, but the FA wouldn't expel 4 or 5 Premier League sides from the league. And obviously if it transpires that a big club is involved then any FA punishment will soften more.

 

[shepherd88]

And you think I sound like Des

Fuck off man, was more the mentioning of Keane

 

[AlpineExile]

Because, flower, I can't be arsed to trawl through 12 pages of this when it's easier to ask someone as the conversation is ongoing.

Interesting to see the sum total of those transfers is c£17m, yet the conversation on here is focussed on £500m which is the absolute maximum. And it's not even about money spent on transfers, it's about agent fees, so substantially less than the £17m. But I've read on here that 10% of £500m is £50m, so that's what we could end up paying...

You can't be arsed to read the OP of this thread you mean, dearie.

Why are you on the thread then, if not to try and troll the other posters?

 

[The Fish]

IF yous are found guilty, and only IF, Charnley will almost certainly be handed a custodial sentence, as will Lambias, as will any other individual who is involved. The club will be punished certainly, possible relegation, possible transfer ban, heavily fined is a given. But its only IF yous are found guilty. On the other hand yous might be innocent of all allegations against yous, in which there'll be nowt for newcastle to worry about

See this is what I don't get. The side you're erring on is apocalyptic; relegation, transfer ban, heavy fine. It's just as likely to be no points deduction, no transfer embargo and just a fine. What did West Ham face after their dodgy deals for Tevez & Mascherano? £5.5m fine, notransfer ban, no points deductions. And that was clearly breaking the FA's rules.

 

[steve30000]

Here's a little suggestion petal:

Why don't you be a dear and read the article that was linked in the frigging OP? Then you wouldn't need to keep asking us questions that have been answered by the self same article?

He's probably too scared to read it. It seems to me that he's flapping like fuck really

 

[Baloo]

Class. So is this thread we are all become forensic accountants and scrutinise nufc accounts and any comments they make? Might as well throw in some extreme possiblities as well.

Hopefully I'll learn something from the thread.

Hopefully it’s how to form a coherent sentence.

 

[The Fish]

You can't be arsed to read the OP of this thread you mean, dearie.

Why are you on the thread then, if not to try and troll the other posters?

a) to chuckle at the accounts experts that appear overnight
b) to shake my head in amusement at the confidence in heavy handed punishments for a crime that Newcastle haven't even been found guilty of
c) to while away some time
d) it's a thread about Newcastle United.

 

[Reiver]

Convincing needn't be "forcing", it can be reasoning, arguing, influencing, or guiding, or cajoling. I could convince someone that Arrichi's ice cream is the best in the region without "forcing" them to agree. But then you know that full well. If your argument consists of quibbling over semantics, don't you think it's a bit silly?

Ashley has, on a number of occasions proven his loyalty to friends and colleagues at Newcastle. However if it saves his investment, I'm comfortable with Charnley being thrown under the bus. However, nobody knows what the outcome will be and yet you've stated that a custodial sentence is almost certain.

The fairly obvious point I was making, way back when, is that without knowing enough facts, or there being a sufficiently similar situation recently that set precedent, it's pointless to make predictions about winding up orders, transfer embargos, or expulsion from the league.

If nothing like that happens, you'll look very foolish.

"If nothing like that happens, you'll look very foolish."

Don't be so stupid man, it's just a bit of harmless fun on a daft football forum .... I'm just guessing as is everyone else.

If it winds up people like you then it adds to the fun .... and it's not pointless to make predictions, it's a chat forum not Crown Court, people are simply amusing themselves,

BTW I've stated that IF it's proven that he's systematically defrauded the a custodial sentence is likely, get your facts straight and stop twisting what people say to convince yourself

 

[AlpineExile]

a) to chuckle at the accounts experts that appear overnight
b) to shake my head in amusement at the confidence in heavy handed punishments for a crime that Newcastle haven't even been found guilty of
c) to while away some time
d) it's a thread about Newcastle United.

But not to educate yourself, unfortunately.

Oh well, time for some Neil Innes (option c), I guess:

You must be logged on to see media items

 

[horselover]

See this is what I don't get. The side you're erring on is apocalyptic; relegation, transfer ban, heavy fine. It's just as likely to be no points deduction, no transfer embargo and just a fine. What did West Ham face after their dodgy deals for Tevez & Mascherano? £5.5m fine, notransfer ban, no points deductions. And that was clearly breaking the FA's rules.

The F A later ordered West Ham to pay Sheff Utd 20m+ in compensation.
The F A won't be as lenient next time around according to Richard Scudamore
Also newcastle's case is tax fraud, so IF found guilty yous will be punished twice

 

[Secret Visage]

Class. So is this thread we are all become forensic accountants and scrutinise nufc accounts and any comments they make? Might as well throw in some extreme possiblities as well.

Hopefully I'll learn something from the thread.

You not done any forensic yet ginge?

 

[Deleted member 29136]

melttoon.

 

[Hot Since 82]

This was the other thing I was debating, the premier league might level their own punishment against them however I suspect this also occurred during one of their ventures into the championship so wonder if the FL would look to punish them also.

The authorities will be forming a long queue to have shot of them, like some sort of sick football bukake session.

At the very least HMRC will want any money they are owed if it’s say 10% of the £500m worth of transfers that’s £50m, plus a fine say £5m. The fa fine them say £2m.

The FA fine is on the never,never.
HMRC however will be like “we want out money now!, what’s that you don’t have it?” They will then file a petition to have the company wound up.

Just ask Rangers. They do not piss around. It’s not like owing a company money HMRC don’t give a shit. Barry at HMRC just needs to get this shit of his desk. For him getting the money or closing a company is the same. He then just picks up another folder hopefully labelled Man City or cheslsea.

The penalty will be 100% of the avoid tax + interest on the tax and the penalty.

Just from reading the original report (that's all the info I have):

HMRC’s Operation Loom officers believe Newcastle “systematically abused the tax system and therefore all payments to agents made by Newcastle were potentially the subject of criminal proceedings”.

They revealed that the five cases of suspected fraud involving the Tyneside club may just be the tip of the iceberg of what could be set to become one of English football’s biggest-ever tax investigations.

A little ambiguous

Crystal clear isn't it, they also said that Charnley has been proven to be dishonest and untrustworthy. It's damming.

 

[Reiver]

The fairly obvious point I was making, way back when, is that without knowing enough facts, or there being a sufficiently similar situation recently that set precedent, it's pointless to make predictions about winding up orders, transfer embargos, or expulsion from the league.

If nothing like that happens, you'll look very foolish.

I suppose if Newcastle used nefarious means to outmanoeuvre FFP rules there could be sanctions, but given our financial situation, I can't see that being the motivating factor. If we did pay agents under the table, it wasn't to find a loophole in FFP, it's to sweeten the deal by avoiding tax. If that's the case I absolutely think there'll be a fine from HMRC, but even if it's the total tax owed, plus a penalty, that is unlikely to be enough that Newcastle United would face winding up orders.

 

[Hot Since 82]

The authorities will be forming a long queue to have shot of them, like some sort of sick football bukake session.


The penalty will be 100% of the avoid tax + interest on the tax and the penalty.



Crystal clear isn't it, they also said that Charnley has been proven to be dishonest and untrustworthy. It's damming.

Damning even.