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Rafa. He's still not happy

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Gaz said:
Yes but its nothing to do with his management ability, its to do with the other shit
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Not just because of his suspect behaviour in transfer dealings, he's an inflexible manager who plays a brand of football that makes a team difficult to beat but it's limited and that's why he rarely finished in the top half.

Lexingtongue said:
He has managed his country. Some might say that is the pinnacle of a manager's career.
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Some might, but I think managing a top club is now more of an achievement. Certainly more of an achievement than managing England. Look at the shite that's taken charge of that pack of ingrates, and look at what they've achieved in club football. Managing a national side is a different challenge, but managing a club to success, with all that requires of a man is a challenge beyond Allardyce, imo.

How many great club managers have also been good England managers? Robson, in my lifetime. How many managers who've taken charge of the England side have been average-to-poor in club football?

fwiw I think Allardyce would have been all right as England coach, but any England manager is hamstrung by the players available to him and we currently have a crop of players that are decent, but wouldn't play Allardyce's style well.
 
The Fish said:
Some might, but I think managing a top club is now more of an achievement. Certainly more of an achievement than managing England. Look at the shite that's taken charge of that pack of ingrates, and look at what they've achieved in club football. Managing a national side is a different challenge, but managing a club to success, with all that requires of a man is a challenge beyond Allardyce, imo.

How many great club managers have also been good England managers? Robson, in my lifetime. How many managers who've taken charge of the England side have been average-to-poor in club football?

fwiw I think Allardyce would have been all right as England coach, but any England manager is hamstrung by the players available to him and we currently have a crop of players that are decent, but wouldn't play Allardyce's style well.
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I totally agree, I suppose Benitez can dream can't he :lol:
 
robbied1 said:
who knows would of happenrd if he had, i cant recall allardyce failing at any of his jobs and i include you lot in there, rafa on the otherhand
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Depends on your view of failure. If it's simply failing to stay up, Allardyce has been relegated before.

Allardyce gets a lot of credit on here for keeping you up, but it wasn't exactly comfortable and there is a reason so many complain about his brand of football. Fans want ambition, they want to watch good football and what counts as good football alters given the context of the situation. Few West Ham fans will have bemoaned the football that saw them promoted under Allardyce's stewardship, but when the football he plays stymied their progress the protests were full throated.

Certainly at Newcastle we very quickly lost faith in him. He gave Derby their one win and four of their 11pts when in charge of Newcastle. Playing 3 defensive midfielders against one of the worst teams in Premier League history. Losing to such heavyweights as Reading, Wigan, Portsmouth, and Blackburn before getting the boot in January. This was a Newcastle team he spent £34m on, signing 10 or so defensive players.

Reiver said:
I totally agree, I suppose Benitez can dream can't he :lol:
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I'd be surprised if he gets an opportunity at one of the top clubs now. Certainly given his criteria. If only we had an owner who shared the ambitions of the fans and the manager. Shame.
 
The Fish said:
I'd be surprised if he gets an opportunity at one of the top clubs now. Certainly given his criteria. If only we had an owner who shared the ambitions of the fans and the manager. Shame.
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Would you say managing Spain would be a greater achievement than managing Newcastle?
 
The Fish said:
Depends on your view of failure. If it's simply failing to stay up, Allardyce has been relegated before.

Allardyce gets a lot of credit on here for keeping you up, but it wasn't exactly comfortable and there is a reason so many complain about his brand of football. Fans want ambition, they want to watch good football and what counts as good football alters given the context of the situation. Few West Ham fans will have bemoaned the football that saw them promoted under Allardyce's stewardship, but when the football he plays stymied their progress the protests were full throated.

Certainly at Newcastle we very quickly lost faith in him. He gave Derby their one win and four of their 11pts when in charge of Newcastle. Playing 3 defensive midfielders against one of the worst teams in Premier League history. Losing to such heavyweights as Reading, Wigan, Portsmouth, and Blackburn before getting the boot in January. This was a Newcastle team he spent £34m on, signing 10 or so defensive players.


I'd be surprised if he gets an opportunity at one of the top clubs now. Certainly given his criteria. If only we had an owner who shared the ambitions of the fans and the manager. Shame.
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Nothing there tells me benetiz is a better premier league manager than allardyce
 
The Fish said:
Depends on your view of failure. If it's simply failing to stay up, Allardyce has been relegated before.

Allardyce gets a lot of credit on here for keeping you up, but it wasn't exactly comfortable and there is a reason so many complain about his brand of football. Fans want ambition, they want to watch good football and what counts as good football alters given the context of the situation. Few West Ham fans will have bemoaned the football that saw them promoted under Allardyce's stewardship, but when the football he plays stymied their progress the protests were full throated.

Certainly at Newcastle we very quickly lost faith in him. He gave Derby their one win and four of their 11pts when in charge of Newcastle. Playing 3 defensive midfielders against one of the worst teams in Premier League history. Losing to such heavyweights as Reading, Wigan, Portsmouth, and Blackburn before getting the boot in January. This was a Newcastle team he spent £34m on, signing 10 or so defensive players.


I'd be surprised if he gets an opportunity at one of the top clubs now. Certainly given his criteria. If only we had an owner who shared the ambitions of the fans and the manager. Shame.
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He's spent 100s of millions on players you absolute idiotic imbecile.
 
The Fish said:
Not just because of his suspect behaviour in transfer dealings, he's an inflexible manager who plays a brand of football that makes a team difficult to beat but it's limited and that's why he rarely finished in the top half.


Some might, but I think managing a top club is now more of an achievement. Certainly more of an achievement than managing England. Look at the shite that's taken charge of that pack of ingrates, and look at what they've achieved in club football. Managing a national side is a different challenge, but managing a club to success, with all that requires of a man is a challenge beyond Allardyce, imo.

How many great club managers have also been good England managers? Robson, in my lifetime. How many managers who've taken charge of the England side have been average-to-poor in club football?

fwiw I think Allardyce would have been all right as England coach, but any England manager is hamstrung by the players available to him and we currently have a crop of players that are decent, but wouldn't play Allardyce's style well.
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when was the last time benitez managed a 'top club'? what happened?
 
Reiver said:
Would you say managing Spain would be a greater achievement than managing Newcastle?
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Yes, but Newcastle aren't currently amongst the pantheon of the truly "big clubs". I'd say managing Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd and so on is a bigger achievement.
 
The Fish said:
Yes, but Newcastle aren't currently amongst the pantheon of the truly "big clubs". I'd say managing Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd and so on is a bigger achievement.
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Without getting into a long, boring and extremely tedious debate with you, you say "currently amongst the pantheon of big clubs". Are you suggesting you have been previously or could be in the future?
 
robbied1 said:
Nothing there tells me benetiz is a better premier league manager than allardyce
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Benitez's lowest position after a full season in charge in 7th, his highest is 2nd. Benitez' highest points total is 86. Sam Allardyce's highest league finish is 6th. His highest points total is 56.
Allardyce has a W/D/L ratio in the Premier League of 165/130/192 33% wins 39% losses
Benitez has a W/D/L ratio in the Premier League of 144/65/55 55% wins 21% losses

Benitez has won promotions, leagues and cups across Europes. Allardyce has won promotion 4 times, twice via the play offs.
 
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