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Benitez Future In Doubt Over Failure to Secure Key Signings

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The Fish said:
Well, that's not true as I've certainly not called him "World Class" nor have I seen him referred to as World Class on here by Newcastle fans.

Benitez has won multiple honours and has built different squads. If we apply your criteria, then you believe Rafa Benitez to be a World Class manager.
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Which clubs has he built squads at where they've won things?

I agree, he's far from World Class, no World Class manager would be in charge of a team that got relegated and to be honest World Class managers wouldn't go anywhere near a club like yours.
 
Zig81 said:
Which clubs has he built squads at where they've won things?

I agree, he's far from World Class, no World Class manager would be in charge of a team that got relegated and to be honest World Class managers wouldn't go anywhere near a club like yours.
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Well, he built Newcastle's squad and we won the Championship, but I'm getting a message from the future and it's telling me that you will discount that, much as you'll discount literally any other suggestion I make because you don't like Newcastle United and as such are incapable of objectivity.

I didn't say he was "far from World Class", just that I haven't called him World Class. The other Sunderland supporter said that winning honours and building teams makes you a World Class Manager. I disagree, there's more to it than that, other wise any mug who builds a squad that wins the FA Cup is, by his measure, World Class.

We've had a few highly rated managers in my lifetime alone, Dalglish, Robson, Allardyce, Benitez, with wildly differing results. We're not a club that can attract the truly elite managers, but I'm ok with that and don't take offence at your suggesting of it.

Thing is, Benitez is clearly a very good manager, he's clearly one of the best managers that Newcastle could have attracted at the time and is a manager that I've confidence in to take us beyond mere survival in the Premier League, given time and backing from our famously dickish owner. The rewriting and twisting of the truth re: Benitez by some on here is bizarre. When there are so many things to mock about Newcastle, it strikes me as entirely bizarre to try and state BEnitez is anything less than a very good manager.

Oh and that voice from the future tells me to expect "But he sent yous down", "He spent a fortune" and to prepare to chuckle, which I am.
 
The Fish said:
Well, he built Newcastle's squad and we won the Championship, but I'm getting a message from the future and it's telling me that you will discount that, much as you'll discount literally any other suggestion I make because you don't like Newcastle United and as such are incapable of objectivity.

I didn't say he was "far from World Class", just that I haven't called him World Class. The other Sunderland supporter said that winning honours and building teams makes you a World Class Manager. I disagree, there's more to it than that, other wise any mug who builds a squad that wins the FA Cup is, by his measure, World Class.

We've had a few highly rated managers in my lifetime alone, Dalglish, Robson, Allardyce, Benitez, with wildly differing results. We're not a club that can attract the truly elite managers, but I'm ok with that and don't take offence at your suggesting of it.

Thing is, Benitez is clearly a very good manager, he's clearly one of the best managers that Newcastle could have attracted at the time and is a manager that I've confidence in to take us beyond mere survival in the Premier League, given time and backing from our famously dickish owner. The rewriting and twisting of the truth re: Benitez by some on here is bizarre. When there are so many things to mock about Newcastle, it strikes me as entirely bizarre to try and state BEnitez is anything less than a very good manager.

Oh and that voice from the future tells me to expect "But he sent yous down", "He spent a fortune" and to prepare to chuckle, which I am.
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Thing is his Liverpool achievements have got him some on paper good positions.

Serie A is not the league it was Rafa has spent a lot of his past decade there and failed. He had brief spells at Madrid who have employed Quiroz in the past so its not the achievement your fans make out.

He had a short spell at Chelsea a club who gave Di Matteo a preseason but not Rafa.

You can spin this as much as you want but what has he built other than LFC?

He took Napoli backwards with huge investment.
 
Banks said:
Thing is his Liverpool achievements have got him some on paper good positions.

Serie A is not the league it was Rafa has spent a lot of his past decade there and failed. He had brief spells at Madrid who have employed Quiroz in the past so its not the achievement your fans make out.

He had a short spell at Chelsea a club who gave Di Matteo a preseason but not Rafa.

You can spin this as much as you want but what has he built other than LFC?

He took Napoli backwards with huge investment.
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This is my point, it doesn't matter what I suggest, you've entrenched ideas about Benitez because he's now the Newcastle manager. You've dismissed accomplishments in the Italian League, he delivered titles at Valencia, but I guarantee you'll dismiss it. Can't you see it's bizarre? You're spending time creating reasons why one of the most trophied managers around doesn't deserve credit for the majority of his career?

If he'd won the Premier League, once, with Leicester City I'd understand the criticism. But he's achived things in different countries, at different tiers, at clubs with different budgets and different expectations.

Before the 16/17 season kicked off we were told Benitez wouldn't stay. Then when he did, we were told we'd be better off with Pearson, because Benitez has no experience in the blood and thunder Championship. Bar the first two games we always looked good bets for automatic promotion and ultimately we won the league. Before the season started we were told that the players he bought were shit and we'd overpaid. That squad he built delivered automatic promotion, therefore it was fit for purpose and to do that while making a profit is laudable.

Despite all of this, there are genuinely some Sunderland fans who don't think he's a good manager. It's mental. Like Flat-Earth believing/Climate change denying mental. :lol:
 
The Fish said:
Well, he built Newcastle's squad and we won the Championship, but I'm getting a message from the future and it's telling me that you will discount that, much as you'll discount literally any other suggestion I make because you don't like Newcastle United and as such are incapable of objectivity.

I didn't say he was "far from World Class", just that I haven't called him World Class. The other Sunderland supporter said that winning honours and building teams makes you a World Class Manager. I disagree, there's more to it than that, other wise any mug who builds a squad that wins the FA Cup is, by his measure, World Class.

We've had a few highly rated managers in my lifetime alone, Dalglish, Robson, Allardyce, Benitez, with wildly differing results. We're not a club that can attract the truly elite managers, but I'm ok with that and don't take offence at your suggesting of it.

Thing is, Benitez is clearly a very good manager, he's clearly one of the best managers that Newcastle could have attracted at the time and is a manager that I've confidence in to take us beyond mere survival in the Premier League, given time and backing from our famously dickish owner. The rewriting and twisting of the truth re: Benitez by some on here is bizarre. When there are so many things to mock about Newcastle, it strikes me as entirely bizarre to try and state BEnitez is anything less than a very good manager.

Oh and that voice from the future tells me to expect "But he sent yous down", "He spent a fortune" and to prepare to chuckle, which I am.
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He built a team capable of winning the Championship, nothing to get a fatty on over Ian, many average managers have achieved that great feat.

Don't listen to voices in your head Ian it's a bit stupid, shouldn't expect much else from the Nostradamus of Numpties really.

Of course money has to be mentioned, it's a massive factor when you're speaking about clubs and managers. Surely if he is as good as you believe he'll be able to get that Championship winning team competing in the lower reaches of the Premier League, I mean, we were told off our resident obsessed armchair football experts that there's nothing between the top of the Championship and the bottom of the Premier League. May I suggest he requires and has required massive amounts of money to achieve his greatness(in your eyes).
 
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The Fish said:
This is my point, it doesn't matter what I suggest, you've entrenched ideas about Benitez because he's now the Newcastle manager. You've dismissed accomplishments in the Italian League, he delivered titles at Valencia, but I guarantee you'll dismiss it. Can't you see it's bizarre? You're spending time creating reasons why one of the most trophied managers around doesn't deserve credit for the majority of his career?

If he'd won the Premier League, once, with Leicester City I'd understand the criticism. But he's achived things in different countries, at different tiers, at clubs with different budgets and different expectations.

Before the 16/17 season kicked off we were told Benitez wouldn't stay. Then when he did, we were told we'd be better off with Pearson, because Benitez has no experience in the blood and thunder Championship. Bar the first two games we always looked good bets for automatic promotion and ultimately we won the league. Before the season started we were told that the players he bought were shit and we'd overpaid. That squad he built delivered automatic promotion, therefore it was fit for purpose and to do that while making a profit is laudable.

Despite all of this, there are genuinely some Sunderland fans who don't think he's a good manager. It's mental. Like Flat-Earth believing/Climate change denying mental. :lol:
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Valencia was nearly 20 years ago. Hes a yesterday man. He has managed 3 champions league winning sides and all hes won is domestic cups. He took over a champions league side spent 100m and made them a uefa cup side.

Winning a cup is a success for Teams like us in the North East. It isnt for Napoli Chelsea Inter.
 
Zig81 said:
He built a team capable of winning the Championship, nothing to get a fatty on over Ian, many average managers have achieved that great feat.

Don't listen to voices in your head Ian it's a bit stupid, shouldn't expect much else from the Nostradamus of Numpties really.

Of course money has to be mentioned, it's a massive factor when you're speaking about clubs and managers. Surely if he is as good as you believe he'll be able to get that Championship winning team competing in the lower reaches of the Premier League, I mean, we were told off our resident obsessed armchair football experts that there's nothing between the top of the Championship and the bottom of the Premier League. May I suggest he requires and has required massive amounts of money to achieve his greatness(in your eyes).
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But that's not all he's done in his career now, is it?

Money is mentioned for Newcastle, but not for Villa. He accomplished a rare feat; getting a team promoted after relegation at the first time of asking. He did it by spending less than that which he brought in. But for some Sunderland fans, that doesn't matter, all that matters is that he failed to keep us up. Of course those same Sunderland fans dismiss the broader picture, because it doesn't fit their position. It's irrelevant that McClaren had 26 games, two windows and huge sums of money. The only blame for our relegation lies at Benitez's feet. :lol:

I mean, petty name calling aside, you realise I'm making sense, right?
 
The Fish said:
But that's not all he's done in his career now, is it?

Money is mentioned for Newcastle, but not for Villa. He accomplished a rare feat; getting a team promoted after relegation at the first time of asking. He did it by spending less than that which he brought in. But for some Sunderland fans, that doesn't matter, all that matters is that he failed to keep us up. Of course those same Sunderland fans dismiss the broader picture, because it doesn't fit their position. It's irrelevant that McClaren had 26 games, two windows and huge sums of money. The only blame for our relegation lies at Benitez's feet. :lol:

I mean, petty name calling aside, you realise I'm making sense, right?
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Not at all, we aren't discussing Villa, canny try to deflect your shite though.

Is he the only manager to get a club promoted at the first attempt of asking after relegation? He did it by asking the board to spend a huge amount of money, again, surely if he is this great manager you believe he is then why did he require vast amounts of money to scrape over the line? Why did he chuck the toys out of the pram in January when your owner refused to spend anymore money?

He's just an average manager who has had high profile jobs and fucked a few of those up .
 
Banks said:
Valencia was nearly 20 years ago. Hes a yesterday man. He has managed 3 champions league winning sides and all hes won is domestic cups. He took over a champions league side spent 100m and made them a uefa cup side.

Winning a cup is a success for Teams like us in the North East. It isnt for Napoli Chelsea Inter.
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He's won the Champions League, the UEFA cup, La Liga twice, the FA Cup, Italian cups, lower leagues too. He's also won personal honours for his work. But none of that counts? Behave yourself man. :lol:

I mean, he's won a shit load of trophies all over the place, he's clearly, clearly, a good manager.


I've asked this of other Sunderland fans, so I'll ask it of you. Do you think Rafa Benitez is a good manager, if not ask yourself honestly why that is. It can't be his career, that is demonstrably impressive.

Zig81 said:
Not at all, we aren't discussing Villa, canny try to deflect your shite though.

Is he the only manager to get a club promoted at the first attempt of asking after relegation? He did it by asking the board to spend a huge amount of money, again, surely if he is this great manager you believe he is then why did he require vast amounts of money to scrape over the line? Why did he chuck the toys out of the pram in January when your owner refused to spend anymore money?

He's just an average manager who has had high profile jobs and fucked a few of those up .
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He's not the only manager, no, that's why I said it was rare, not unique.

We didn't "scrape over the line". That's a total fabrication. We were 9pts clear of 3rd and 19 pts clear of 7th.

Have you proof he couldn't have done it with less money? And when have you heard of a manager that didn't want to buy the best squad possible? It would be foolish for a Championship side that didn't spend what they could afford to try and get promoted, that would be poor management. We had 10s of millions available to us and are in a financially healthy position, why wouldn't we spend it?

He wanted to strengthen in January so that the new recruits were able to deliver promotion and then perform in the Premier League. This is why we were pursuing Townsend. He's a player that is good enough for the Premier League and we could have had him in January, he gets 6 months playing for Benitez in a lower division and is ready to go as soon as the season starts. That's just good management. No different to trying to get players in asap in the window; the longer you work with them the better they understand the systems, the tactics, etc.

Of course you don't want to talk about Villa, they spent more than Newcastle and failed. Proving that money alone doesn't assure you of anything.
 
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He is a good manager and is a perfect fit for them because they are 99% behind him - that creates unity and it's positive for the football side of things.

Obviously they will turn with some horsings, especially if it happens at home but I think they will turn on Ashley and charnley first.
 
The Fish said:
This is my point, it doesn't matter what I suggest, you've entrenched ideas about Benitez because he's now the Newcastle manager. You've dismissed accomplishments in the Italian League, he delivered titles at Valencia, but I guarantee you'll dismiss it. Can't you see it's bizarre? You're spending time creating reasons why one of the most trophied managers around doesn't deserve credit for the majority of his career?

If he'd won the Premier League, once, with Leicester City I'd understand the criticism. But he's achived things in different countries, at different tiers, at clubs with different budgets and different expectations.

Before the 16/17 season kicked off we were told Benitez wouldn't stay. Then when he did, we were told we'd be better off with Pearson, because Benitez has no experience in the blood and thunder Championship. Bar the first two games we always looked good bets for automatic promotion and ultimately we won the league. Before the season started we were told that the players he bought were shit and we'd overpaid. That squad he built delivered automatic promotion, therefore it was fit for purpose and to do that while making a profit is laudable.

Despite all of this, there are genuinely some Sunderland fans who don't think he's a good manager. It's mental. Like Flat-Earth believing/Climate change denying mental. :lol:
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His best was while he was at Valencia in all honesty.
The liverpool cl victory was a fluke. They were done at half time and then gerrard played barca by himself .
He's had some good jobs but failed everywhere despite inheriting good squads and loaded clubs.
Nufc was the best he could hope to get and despite spending obscene amounts you have gone backwards. You were far from convincing in the pub league.
 
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