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Benitez Future In Doubt Over Failure to Secure Key Signings

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The Fish said:
Nobody denies that he failed to keep us up. Nobody. But we're just able to see the bigger picture. He didn't have enough time to turn it around, but looking at his PpG (and the performances) he would have with a couple more games imo.

We also see that he's the best manager we could have, arguably better than a club in our situation could reasonably have expected to attract.

What some Sunderland fans do not like is that he is a big name, that he's got us straight back up without much fuss and he's the kind of manager that gives us a good chance of staying up and hopefully (for us) build upon that and re-establish us as fixture of the Premier League. Some Sunderland fans would prefer the avuncular but limited McClaren who wouldn't keep us up, the terrible PArdew who'd not only take us down, but would embarrass the club at the same time. I get why some Sunderland fans would want that, but rewriting history to establish an alternative to reality is silly, especially when it's so demonstrably untrue.
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The Fish said:
Nobody denies that he failed to keep us up. Nobody. But we're just able to see the bigger picture. He didn't have enough time to turn it around, but looking at his PpG (and the performances) he would have with a couple more games imo.

We also see that he's the best manager we could have, arguably better than a club in our situation could reasonably have expected to attract.

What some Sunderland fans do not like is that he is a big name, that he's got us straight back up without much fuss and he's the kind of manager that gives us a good chance of staying up and hopefully (for us) build upon that and re-establish us as fixture of the Premier League. Some Sunderland fans would prefer the avuncular but limited McClaren who wouldn't keep us up, the terrible PArdew who'd not only take us down, but would embarrass the club at the same time. I get why some Sunderland fans would want that, but rewriting history to establish an alternative to reality is silly, especially when it's so demonstrably untrue.
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Not really, the only team you could have got above (based on PpG in last 10 - as rafa had) was West Brom, you would have needed at least 6 games and hoped that they continued their slump.

The Fish said:
No we don't. That's an outright lie.

It wasn't inevitable, but it certainly was a difficult job. A much more difficult job than some Sunderland fans like to portray. He inherited a terribly coached side and yet managed to get 1.3PpG in his matches. A points per game return that would have got us 48pts, and 11th had it continued over a full season. 2 more games at that PpG would have got us to safety at your expense. We'd have finished above a manager that remains highly regarded on here despite having the majority of the season to get safety.

His first match was the eventual Champions, then a derby, then relegation 6pt-er, then the team that finished 8th, after that he didn't lose a game.

He failed to keep us up and deserves criticism for not taking all 3 pts from Villa and for not getting something from the Norwich game. But his portion of the blame is a much smaller slice than you're proposing.
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By that logic Big Sam (with a 1.45 PpG ratio) would have had us on 55 points, still above you.
 
Sima said:
Definitely fair to compare a manager who had 30 games and one transfer window against one who had 10 games and no transfer window.

What was Allardyce's record in his first 10 games btw?

On the game v Aston Villa it was wasteful finishing that let us down. You make it sound like we didn't attack them.

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Oh, you've gone. A cynic would suggest that you're cutting this short because you've realised your point is flimsy and you can't really progress the discussion any further rather than bleating over and over again how it's all Benitez's fault that we got relegated.
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That's not very attacking mind (as has been said, not in a must win game against a side who were gone by then)

I think we were playing Chelsea at home the same day and only went above you's (or pulled away further from you's) getting that shock win. I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa was accepting a draw as he assumed Chelsea would beat us.
 
well moyes talked of relegation after two games, is this rafas version getting the excuse in early for inevitable struggle, as big bad mike didn't give him £100m plus to blow?

Benitez has form for this, usually prior to leaving with the fans cheering about how badly done to he was

infamy, they have all got it infamy
 
The Fish said:
He inherited a terribly coached side and yet managed to get 1.3PpG in his matches. A points per game return that would have got us 48pts, and 11th had it continued over a full season. 2 more games at that PpG would have got us to safety at your expense. We'd have finished above a manager that remains highly regarded on here despite having the majority of the season to get safety.
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The Spurs match slightly alters those stats mind. Do you honestly believe a 10 man Newcastle would have beaten a Spurs team 5-1 a few weeks earlier? You may as well have been playing cones that day.

Take the no pressure exhibition match away and it's 10 points from 9 games. Which included your 3 relegation rivals.

He did ok, but to claim he didn't have time to 'save you' is ridiculous
 
Sima said:
Definitely fair to compare a manager who had 30 games and one transfer window against one who had 10 games and no transfer window.

What was Allardyce's record in his first 10 games btw?

On the game v Aston Villa it was wasteful finishing that let us down. You make it sound like we didn't attack them.

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Oh, you've gone. A cynic would suggest that you're cutting this short because you've realised your point is flimsy and you can't really progress the discussion any further rather than bleating over and over again how it's all Benitez's fault that we got relegated.
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9 shots v a woeful Villa f***ing hell hardly the Alamo and only 5 corners sounds like a yous flung the kitchen sink at them mind
 
So this "promoted with not much fuss" line trotted out by Ian Mad McMad?

Think we need a bit of clarifty and reflection.

What was the total outgoings on players again? Mention this because the mags like to focus on net spend when it suits.

Any books published about this manager?

The term "Rafalution" ever mentioned in the local press?

Yeah clearly was a fuss free season from them lot
 
Sima said:
Yeah but what's not good enough for Liverpool, Inter Milan and Real Madrid could surely be good enough for Sunderland?

I get it that you say you were critical of Benitez in 2007, this has probably been amplified a little by him becoming the manager of Newcastle but to suggest you wouldn't have him as Sunderland's manager at this moment in time is a bit of a strange one.



I've always been an arsehole tbf but I've been told I was nowhere to be seen on here when we were relegated last summer so not sure how you could have come to that conclusion in the first place.
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I swear on the life of my parents and mine, I have always said that I would never want Benitez at Sunderland, I have been critical of his failings at massive clubs, so would not want him managing on a budget here. This season if Benitez spends less than £30m and keeps Newcastle up safely then I think it is his greatest managerial achievement since Valencia.

Jay said:
The current favourite for our next manager is Simon Grayson. Let's not pretend that we'd all not absolutely love Rafa Benitez here, getting pied off by the Aberdeen boss should give you an infication of how attractive the safc job is
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Mate I would rather have Simon Grayson, have a look at my posts previous on how much I have never rated Benitez since 2007, this is not an anti Newcastle thing. I hope he stays so they come back down or at least get left with a load of mess on their books.

Look at Simon Grayson's jobs in recent years on his budgets compared to Benitez's clubs and budgets.
 
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Mr.Thunders said:
So this "promoted with not much fuss" line trotted out by Ian Mad McMad?

Think we need a bit of clarifty and reflection.

What was the total outgoings on players again? Mention this because the mags like to focus on net spend when it suits.

Any books published about this manager?

The term "Rafalution" ever mentioned in the local press?

Yeah clearly was a fuss free season from them lot
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We's he?
does he post on here ?
 
G Force said:
The Spurs match slightly alters those stats mind. Do you honestly believe a 10 man Newcastle would have beaten a Spurs team 5-1 a few weeks earlier? You may as well have been playing cones that day.

Take the no pressure exhibition match away and it's 10 points from 9 games. Which included your 3 relegation rivals.

He did ok, but to claim he didn't have time to 'save you' is ridiculous
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Kind of like playing the cones you lot were playing against a disgraced Everton team that week.
 
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