Benitez Future In Doubt Over Failure to Secure Key Signings

[What A Waster]

Just proven a point, Shearer doesn't get mentioned cause wor Alan! Yeah ya admit he was pony but you wouldn't list him due to your sense of loyalty to him from his time as a player and I get that.

It's the Benitez bit I don't get he did pony and none of your lot can admit it cause he is a big name. You failed to beat any of your relegation rivals and went from being outside the relegation zone on his arrival to being relegated, despite having a squad that sold two midfielders for about 60m afterwards.

It's whitewashed over that he took you down. It's like George Orwells 1984 with you lot re-write history!

Never wanted him as manager personally. In a way I'm glad he got the job and failed and now its out the way because his shadow would've always been there for any new manager coming in, people saying when is shearer gonna get the job.
I don't usually mention him as manager as it was only a caretaker role for 8 games. Not out of loyalty. I slag the club off all the time, and Shearer wouldn't be excluded. At the time I doubted the merits of appointing him, and it proved to be disastrous.
If he'd been a success, great. But it wasn't an appointment I was calling out for.

 

[young2077]

"Answer me this myopic question so that I can score internet points by ignoring everything else aside from a person's name."

Has it come to this? The message board equivalent of "Answer this yes or no question, does your mam know you're gay?"

Read my reply to it!

You hate admitting he was in charge when ya went down and ya like to make out it was inevitable by the time he came in. You weren't even in the bottom three when he came in and had your relegation rivals to play.

So answer me this then would you say any other manager had done a bad job to come in when he did with the game he had left and the league position he was in to them get relegated. He fucked it up he played defensive against Villa for one.

And as a side note I'm not arsed if ya mam knows ya are or not!

 

[tonyfromalnwick]

This place absolutely stinks of dirty mag these days. Surely they have their own bigger and better forum to infest ?
Gravy stained pricks, the lot of them.

 

[What A Waster]

This place absolutely stinks of dirty mag these days. Surely they have their own bigger and better forum to infest ?
Gravy stained pricks, the lot of them.

I live on here, got nothing else going on in my life.

 

[tonyfromalnwick]

I live on here, got nothing else going on in my life.

That's ok then.

 

[young2077]

Never wanted him as manager personally. In a way I'm glad he got the job and failed and now its out the way because his shadow would've always been there for any new manager coming in, people saying when is shearer gonna get the job.
I don't usually mention him as manager as it was only a caretaker role for 8 games. Not out of loyalty. I slag the club off all the time, and Shearer wouldn't be excluded. At the time I doubted the merits of appointing him, and it proved to be disastrous.
If he'd been a success, great. But it wasn't an appointment I was calling out for.

Fair enough, as I said I wouldn't slag shearer either if tables were turned. He tried and like you said he shouldn't have got the job he was in no way experienced enough and in my opinion it was Ashley trying to appease the fans.

What about Rafa how did he do in the season ya went down?

 

[Sima]

Read my reply to it!

You hate admitting he was in charge when ya went down and ya like to make out it was inevitable by the time he came in. You weren't even in the bottom three when he came in and had your relegation rivals to play.

So answer me this then would you say any other manager had done a bad job to come in when he did with the game he had left and the league position he was in to them get relegated. He fucked it up he played defensive against Villa for one.

And as a side note I'm not arsed if ya mam knows ya are or not!

Wrong.

 

[The Fish]

Just proven a point, Shearer doesn't get mentioned cause wor Alan! Yeah ya admit he was pony but you wouldn't list him due to your sense of loyalty to him from his time as a player and I get that.

It's the Benitez bit I don't get he did pony and none of your lot can admit it cause he is a big name. You failed to beat any of your relegation rivals and went from being outside the relegation zone on his arrival to being relegated, despite having a squad that sold two midfielders for about 60m afterwards.

It's whitewashed over that he took you down. It's like George Orwells 1984 with you lot re-write history!

Nobody denies that he failed to keep us up. Nobody. But we're just able to see the bigger picture. He didn't have enough time to turn it around, but looking at his PpG (and the performances) he would have with a couple more games imo.

We also see that he's the best manager we could have, arguably better than a club in our situation could reasonably have expected to attract.

What some Sunderland fans do not like is that he is a big name, that he's got us straight back up without much fuss and he's the kind of manager that gives us a good chance of staying up and hopefully (for us) build upon that and re-establish us as fixture of the Premier League. Some Sunderland fans would prefer the avuncular but limited McClaren who wouldn't keep us up, the terrible PArdew who'd not only take us down, but would embarrass the club at the same time. I get why some Sunderland fans would want that, but rewriting history to establish an alternative to reality is silly, especially when it's so demonstrably untrue.

 

[Wearside Wanderer II]

The unwashed from up the road are certainly getting their fish skanked knickers in a twist over the fat Spanish waiter walking.

 

[young2077]

Wrong.

Just googled it and see that I'm wrong.

Ya were a game in hand and a point behind us who were fourth bottom. With those down there left to play still a decent position to be in not he forgone conclusion that it has gone down in mag history as.

Nobody denies that he failed to keep us up. Nobody. But we're just able to see the bigger picture. He didn't have enough time to turn it around, but looking at his PpG (and the performances) he would have with a couple more games imo.

We also see that he's the best manager we could have, arguably better than a club in our situation could reasonably have expected to attract.

What some Sunderland fans do not like is that he is a big name, that he's got us straight back up without much fuss and he's the kind of manager that gives us a good chance of staying up and hopefully (for us) build upon that and re-establish us as fixture of the Premier League. Some Sunderland fans would prefer the avuncular but limited McClaren who wouldn't keep us up, the terrible PArdew who'd not only take us down, but would embarrass the club at the same time. I get why some Sunderland fans would want that, but rewriting history to establish an alternative to reality is silly, especially when it's so demonstrably untrue.

I give up! Not enough time ok mate sound that must be it "not enough time."

I'm not particularly arsed as I think he will struggle aswell. Without a fuss he has threatened to leave twice already if he doesn't get the funds.

Who do you think releases that shit to the media the tea lady.

 

[The Fish]

Read my reply to it!

You hate admitting he was in charge when ya went down and ya like to make out it was inevitable by the time he came in. You weren't even in the bottom three when he came in and had your relegation rivals to play.

So answer me this then would you say any other manager had done a bad job to come in when he did with the game he had left and the league position he was in to them get relegated. He fucked it up he played defensive against Villa for one.

And as a side note I'm not arsed if ya mam knows ya are or not!

No we don't. That's an outright lie.

It wasn't inevitable, but it certainly was a difficult job. A much more difficult job than some Sunderland fans like to portray. He inherited a terribly coached side and yet managed to get 1.3PpG in his matches. A points per game return that would have got us 48pts, and 11th had it continued over a full season. 2 more games at that PpG would have got us to safety at your expense. We'd have finished above a manager that remains highly regarded on here despite having the majority of the season to get safety.

His first match was the eventual Champions, then a derby, then relegation 6pt-er, then the team that finished 8th, after that he didn't lose a game.

He failed to keep us up and deserves criticism for not taking all 3 pts from Villa and for not getting something from the Norwich game. But his portion of the blame is a much smaller slice than you're proposing.

 

[Sima]

I've said it before, lambasting Benitez for taking us down is, at the same time, dumbing down Allardyce's achievements in keeping you up.

It was only this 'Champions League form at the back end of last season' I've seen banded about that kept us from staying up.

Our game in hand was against Man City at home btw. It's obviously better to have points on the board rather than have games in hand imo.

 

[The Fish]

Just googled it and see that I'm wrong.

Ya were a game in hand and a point behind us who were fourth bottom. With those down there left to play still a decent position to be in not he forgone conclusion that it has gone down in mag history as.



I give up! Not enough time ok mate sound that must be it "not enough time."

I'm not particularly arsed as I think he will struggle aswell. Without a fuss he has threatened to leave twice already if he doesn't get the funds.

Who do you think releases that shit to the media the tea lady.

Got us promoted without much fuss, was there a point of the season when you thought we wouldn't be promoted? That's a separate conversation to the one about keeping pressure on Ashley to hold true to his promises.

 

[What A Waster]

No we don't. That's an outright lie.

It wasn't inevitable, but it certainly was a difficult job. A much more difficult job than some Sunderland fans like to portray. He inherited a terribly coached side and yet managed to get 1.3PpG in his matches. A points per game return that would have got us 48pts, and 11th had it continued over a full season. 2 more games at that PpG would have got us to safety at your expense. We'd have finished above a manager that remains highly regarded on here despite having the majority of the season to get safety.

His first match was the eventual Champions, then a derby, then relegation 6pt-er, then the team that finished 8th, after that he didn't lose a game.

He failed to keep us up and deserves criticism for not taking all 3 pts from Villa and for not getting something from the Norwich game. But his portion of the blame is a much smaller slice than you're proposing.

This

I'm gonna stop posting now until about 4pm, gonna pretend I've got a life , been fun doing this conversation for the millionth time.

 

[young2077]

No we don't. That's an outright lie.

It wasn't inevitable, but it certainly was a difficult job. A much more difficult job than some Sunderland fans like to portray. He inherited a terribly coached side and yet managed to get 1.3PpG in his matches. A points per game return that would have got us 48pts, and 11th had it continued over a full season. 2 more games at that PpG would have got us to safety at your expense. We'd have finished above a manager that remains highly regarded on here despite having the majority of the season to get safety.

His first match was the eventual Champions, then a derby, then relegation 6pt-er, then the team that finished 8th, after that he didn't lose a game.

He failed to keep us up and deserves criticism for not taking all 3 pts from Villa and for not getting something from the Norwich game. But his portion of the blame is a much smaller slice than you're proposing.

Ya would have stayed up above us? That's bollocks our form from January under Sam pissed all over yours and the season could have went on for another 5 games and you wouldn't have went above us we took a point off City, 3 off Chelsea and united aswell as only dropping 2 points to the team below us. But your ppg would have eventually caught us up ya reckon. Maybe someone should have told Rafa how many games he had left poor bloke never had a chance not knowing.

I've said it before, lambasting Benitez for taking us down is, at the same time, dumbing down Allardyce's achievements in keeping you up.

It was only this 'Champions League form at the back end of last season' I've seen banded about that kept us from staying up.

Our game in hand was against Man City at home btw. It's obviously better to have points on the board rather than have games in hand imo.

Maybe you and fish should decide which it is our good form that kept us up or just the fact you didn't have them extra couple of games for your ppg to take effect and catch us up.

 

[The Fish]

Ya would have stayed up above us? That's bollocks our form from January under Sam pissed all over yours and the season could have went on for another 5 games and you wouldn't have went above us we took a point off City, 3 off Chelsea and united aswell as only dropping 2 points to the team below us. But your ppg would have eventually caught us up ya reckon. Maybe someone should have told Rafa how many games he had left poor bloke never had a chance not knowing.

I'm not sure you're getting my point. Benitez took over a poor team, had 10 games to save us and didn't. McClaren had 26 games, 2 transfer windows and eye watering amounts of money to get us to safety and didn't come close.

After the spanking at Chelsea there was a big gap before Stoke and Bournemouth (19 days), two games where I would have fancied Benitez to get points. 3-4 points from them (or more likely turning Norwich and Villa from 1pt into 3-4) would have kept us up.

I'm saying a manager like Benitez (not a fire and brimstone shouty type) needed time to fix the problems in training and on matchday. You can see the results and performances improved as his time went on. So it stands to reason that, given an extra 2 1/2 weeks without a match to fix the problems, then 2 easier fixtures to ease into the league run, before the final run in, given all of that it's reasonable to say Benitez would have kept us up.

Are you saying that's not reasonable?

Maybe you and fish should decide which it is our good form that kept us up or just the fact you didn't have them extra couple of games for your ppg to take effect and catch us up.

This is the kernel of the issue. There isn't 1 reason for a relegation. You weren't relegated last season because Kone's head was turned, or because M'Vila wasn't signed permanently, it wasn't just Moyes' incompetence, or Defoe's poor end of the season, it was a host of reasons and it's childish to suggest otherwise.

 

[young2077]

I'm not sure you're getting my point. Benitez took over a poor team, had 10 games to save us and didn't. McClaren had 26 games, 2 transfer windows and eye watering amounts of money to get us to safety and didn't come close.

After the spanking at Chelsea there was a big gap before Stoke and Bournemouth (19 days), two games where I would have fancied Benitez to get points. 3-4 points from them (or more likely turning Norwich and Villa from 1pt into 3-4) would have kept us up.

I'm saying a manager like Benitez (not a fire and brimstone shouty type) needed time to fix the problems in training and on matchday. You can see the results and performances improved as his time went on. So it stands to reason that, given an extra 2 1/2 weeks without a match to fix the problems, then 2 easier fixtures to ease into the league run, before the final run in, given all of that it's reasonable to say Benitez would have kept us up.

Are you saying that's not reasonable?



This is the kernel of the issue. There isn't 1 reason for a relegation. You weren't relegated last season because Kone's head was turned, or because M'Vila wasn't signed permanently, it wasn't just Moyes' incompetence, or Defoe's poor end of the season, it was a host of reasons and it's childish to suggest otherwise.

Your results were worse than ours and you weren't staying up at our expense. He may have had a better ppg over his time but Sam had come into a team that couldn't even last a 90 minute match due to poor fitness. Once he sorted it out in Jan our form was way better than yours and a lot of the league and we wouldn't have got further away from you had there been more games has you suggested.

He played the game wrong against villa who were conceding for fun yet you failed to beat them! Yet you somehow think he would have beat them if something was different I don't quite get what your saying would need to be different. I think ya saying there was a big gap between two games that if there was a gap he would have managed to turn it around and get more points?

I'm out bye.

 

[Sima]

Your results were worse than ours and you weren't staying up at our expense. He may have had a better ppg over his time but Sam had come into a team that couldn't even last a 90 minute match due to poor fitness. Once he sorted it out in Jan our form was way better than yours and a lot of the league and we wouldn't have got further away from you had there been more games has you suggested.

He played the game wrong against villa who were conceding for fun yet you failed to beat them! Yet you somehow think he would have beat them if something was different I don't quite get what your saying would need to be different. I think ya saying there was a big gap between two games that if there was a gap he would have managed to turn it around and get more points?

I'm out bye.

Definitely fair to compare a manager who had 30 games and one transfer window against one who had 10 games and no transfer window.

What was Allardyce's record in his first 10 games btw?

On the game v Aston Villa it was wasteful finishing that let us down. You make it sound like we didn't attack them.

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Oh, you've gone. A cynic would suggest that you're cutting this short because you've realised your point is flimsy and you can't really progress the discussion any further rather than bleating over and over again how it's all Benitez's fault that we got relegated.

 

[samaistonsrightfoot]

Benitez would be one of the worst appointments we could make. He would spend a month hissing and spitting as he can't spend 50 million, then quit. We need a tactically astute manager that has the ability to get the best out of their players, increase moral and develop what we have. The last thing we need is someone who only knows how to throw money at problems. Its exactly the reason we are in the mess we are in. You don't put out a house fire by throwing molotov cocktails at it

 

[young2077]

Definitely fair to compare a manager who had 30 games and one transfer window against one who had 10 games and no transfer window.

What was Allardyce's record in his first 10 games btw?

It was shite and had we only had them ten games to turn it around we would have went down. However if me auntie had balls she would be me uncle.

Sam had his games and in the end succeeded in keeping us up and Rafa had his and took you down.

It wasn't fish that brought out the ppg under Rafa would have meant you would have stayed up a thing our expense that's why I brought up Sam and the form he had us in in the end was better than yours. But yeah unfair of me to compare.

Definitely fair to compare a manager who had 30 games and one transfer window against one who had 10 games and no transfer window.

What was Allardyce's record in his first 10 games btw?

On the game v Aston Villa it was wasteful finishing that let us down. You make it sound like we didn't attack them.

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Oh, you've gone. A cynic would suggest that you're cutting this short because you've realised your point is flimsy and you can't really progress the discussion any further rather than bleating over and over again how it's all Benitez's fault that we got relegated.

I'll reply to your edit.

I'd suggest that isn't very attacking against Aston Villa who's were conceding for fun by the way. Not when you needed a win and a draw was on par with a defeat.

Rafa took you down there is nothing flimsy about that I have never said it was all his fault, I just don't accept it wasn't his fault at all, he was manager had 10 games and failed to beat any of your relegation rivals. Was the previous boss shite and did he have a big hand to play in the relegation, yeah but that doesn't absolve the boss who was in charge in the end. If you were 6 or more points adrift when he came in fair enough bit you were one even if we forget about he game in hand against city. Guaranteed if you were all asked when he came in then there was definitely enough game and ya were gonna send us down.

But when it didn't happen suddenly he didn't have enough time.

I'm getting off because there is no point talking to a brick wall. I am not gonna change your opinion and your not gonna change mine. I'll always think he failed and you lot will always think it didn't count as he had no time.