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How the liberal left killed the Labour Party

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Mackem00 said:
Ed Milliband lost because, let's face it, he was f***ing hopeless.
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I don't entirely agree. He was matching the Tories generally on public opinion. I think it boiled down to being seen as poor on the economy, fear of a coalition with the snp, the fall of the lib dems and a collapse of the vote in Scotland. I agree that he was perceived as a numpty, but where that became particularly salient was on the economy.
 

haway said:
I don't entirely agree. He was matching the Tories generally on public opinion. I think it boiled down to being seen as poor on the economy, fear of a coalition with the snp, the fall of the lib dems and a collapse of the vote in Scotland. I agree that he was perceived as a numpty, but where that became particularly salient was on the economy.
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He had the electorate laughing at him whilst feeling a bit sorry for him. It's sad but true. He wouldn't have won no matter who the opposition was. He was simply unelectable.
 
Mackem00 said:
He had the electorate laughing at him whilst feeling a bit sorry for him. It's sad but true. He wouldn't have won no matter who the opposition was. He was simply unelectable.
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That story doesn't seem correct IMO given how close he was to winning. He also wasn't particularly far behind on polls on who would be best PM. Where he got stuffed was who do you trust most on the economy .
 
RTRsBM said:
Continuing down the same path certainly won't do it. The anti corbynites simply fail to acknowledge that Blairs Labour Party lost 2 elections in a row.
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It wasn't Blair's Labour ffs:lol:. There wouldn't have been a single person who switched from red to blue in 2010 and 2015 who said there are doing it because of Tony Blair imo
 
Newcastle Fan said:
People that don't agree with you aren't educated?
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People who think a country should live within its means in the time of a recession are idiots. I include the current chancellor in that. A country should live within its means in a boom, it should invest, thus helping to stimulate the economy and getting new infrastructure built at the cheapest time, in a bust.
 
nyron4england said:
@Newcastle Fan very good article, good post, pretty spot on. i wholeheartedly agree with that article. its almost become 'clicky', and if youre not a corbyn loving hipster then you arent red. get corbyn out and get someone in who can win the wider audience and ultimately, the bloody election!
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The most worrying part is that the pro Corbyn camp will literally look at 'X' and say it's 'Y' no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary.

You only have to look at this thread.

I've had the same conversation 4 or 5 times on here with the same posters about how party membership means **** all in relation to electoral success and explained why. Yet every thread the same people reappear with BUT CORBYN HAS OVERSEEN A RISE IN LABOUR MEMBERS, despite the fact they already know this is no barometer of how successful a party is (see Cameron's Tories who have seen a halving in membership yet won the GE).

The same people have also created a fantasy scenario in which they genuinely believe labour's performance in the recent council elections wasn't poor. This is because they base it on relative expectations, and because he didn't do as terrible as some people predicted, that's a victory in their eyes. In the eyes of any sane left/centrist/right wing onlooker, it was absolutely a poor performance.

Just like the article says, they repeat nonsense statements like:

'People voted Tory because they were annoyed at labour being Tory lite!!' If people don't like Tory lite why the fuck would they vote Tory :lol:

Or:

'The reason Labour are doing badly in the polls is because of bitter blairites undermining the leader!' Please find me a single person who doesn't trust labour because of this, and not because of the economy/welfare/immigration/Corbyn :lol

Or perhaps my favourite:

'The polls were wrong in 2015 so will be now too!' Except the only reason the polls were wrong is they underestimated the Tory vote, and to this day polls are STILL underestimating the Tory vote. If anything the polls are biased in favour of labour.
 
Newcastle Fan said:
'The polls were wrong in 2015 so will be now too!' Except the only reason the polls were wrong is they underestimated the Tory vote, and to this day polls are STILL underestimating the Tory vote. If anything the polls are biased in favour of labour.
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There was a survation poll on May 6 that f***ing nailed it to within 1% for all major parties tbf

the fault of the polls was interpreting proportions to seats, they failed drastically with that

proportionally they were pretty spot on

sorry. it's a pet hate of mine.
 
Newcastle Fan said:
The most worrying part is that the pro Corbyn camp will literally look at 'X' and say it's 'Y' no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary.

You only have to look at this thread.

I've had the same conversation 4 or 5 times on here with the same posters about how party membership means **** all in relation to electoral success and explained why. Yet every thread the same people reappear with BUT CORBYN HAS OVERSEEN A RISE IN LABOUR MEMBERS, despite the fact they already know this is no barometer of how successful a party is (see Cameron's Tories who have seen a halving in membership yet won the GE).

The same people have also created a fantasy scenario in which they genuinely believe labour's performance in the recent council elections wasn't poor. This is because they base it on relative expectations, and because he didn't do as terrible as some people predicted, that's a victory in their eyes. In the eyes of any sane left/centrist/right wing onlooker, it was absolutely a poor performance.

Just like the article says, they repeat nonsense statements like:

'People voted Tory because they were annoyed at labour being Tory lite!!' If people don't like Tory lite why the fuck would they vote Tory :lol:

Or:

'The reason Labour are doing badly in the polls is because of bitter blairites undermining the leader!' Please find me a single person who doesn't trust labour because of this, and not because of the economy/welfare/immigration/Corbyn :lol

Or perhaps my favourite:

'The polls were wrong in 2015 so will be now too!' Except the only reason the polls were wrong is they underestimated the Tory vote, and to this day polls are STILL underestimating the Tory vote. If anything the polls are biased in favour of labour.
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aye, and probably overseen a fall in membership also. never paying for this while that clown is in charge.
 
Newcastle Fan said:
Best piece of writing I've seen so far on the situation Labour currently find themselves in, definitely worth a read right through to the end, though I've posted a few snippets below. Even if you usually think I talk utter shit I'd recommend reading it, the arguments are pretty compelling.

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'Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This
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into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.'

'Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.'

'To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.'
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Perfectly put...
 
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