How the liberal left killed the Labour Party

[Deleted member 5265]

Best piece of writing I've seen so far on the situation Labour currently find themselves in, definitely worth a read right through to the end, though I've posted a few snippets below. Even if you usually think I talk utter shit I'd recommend reading it, the arguments are pretty compelling.

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'Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This

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into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.'

'Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.'

'To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.'

Thanks for sharing, it's a good article. I'd add one more to your selection of quotes from it:

"When the Labour Party listens to, and speaks to, all sections of society, it is the greatest force of progressive change this country has ever known."

 

[Bagpuss]

I started the thread title with that because that's the title of the blog post

The fact the Labour Party has a huge membership is irrelevant. You already know this of course, you've had it explained to you numerous times on here, you just choose to ignore it. The Tory membership halfed under Cameron yet he managed to win a general election in spite of this. There is no correlation between party membership and electoral success in the modern era.

The Labour Party also produced the worst opposition performance in local council elections in decades. How is that alive and kicking?

The worst performance in decades? They retained all but a handful of the seats that Milliband did in what was lauded as a huge victory, that statement is utter nonsense. Given how unelectable you claim they are then how did they manage that.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

none of them are

tories aren't, labour aren't, this whole 'household budget' analogy that thatcher peddled to the housewives of the 70s and 80s is utter bullshit because a household can't borrow money from other sovereign states at tiny interest rates and invest in national infrastructure to stimulate the economy, whereas a country can do that quite successfully IMO there

Quite.

 

[Newcastle Fan]

The worst performance in decades? They retained all but a handful of the seats that Milliband did in what was lauded as a huge victory, that statement is utter nonsense. Given how unelectable you claim they are then how did they manage that.

You're looking at a red wall and telling me that it's blue. I clearly can't change your mind here. But the idea that Labour's performance in the council elections wasn't poor just because it wasn't as bad as some of us feared it would be is delusional.

 

[Bagpuss]

You're looking at a red wall and telling me that it's blue. I clearly can't change your mind here. But the idea that Labour's performance in the council elections wasn't poor just because it wasn't as bad as some of us feared it would be is delusional.

No mate, Im telling you it wasnt poor because it was virtually identical to an election performance that was lauded as superb at the last council elections. How can it be that a virtually identical set of results are now claimed to be a disaster. Oh aye, cause that fits in the the right wing medias agenda of course

 

[Randy Ostrich]

Only a idiot would believe someone who won three successive elections for a party killed it

Not one single person voted tory in 2010 and 2015 because labour wasn't left wing enough imo

Agreed. They lost because they didn't really stand for anything.

 

[Newcastle Fan]

No mate, Im telling you it wasnt poor because it was virtually identical to an election performance that was lauded as superb at the last council elections. How can it be that a virtually identical set of results are now claimed to be a disaster. Oh aye, cause that fits in the the right wing medias agenda of course

right wing media bias klaxon

 

[knitting away]

It comes down to peoples perception of competance as mucb as anything else. Whatever you think of them blairs cabinet had some talent, majors were tired and finished. Hague, howard, ids and miliband all looked short of leading the country and werent backed by people that the swimg voters trusted to administer the country. Camerons team just about convince the swingers hence the narrow win.
Early days but i would expext the experience and apparent competance of may or osborne will persuade the swingers (assuming that the tory party still exists).

 

[Deleted member 361]

Best piece of writing I've seen so far on the situation Labour currently find themselves in, definitely worth a read right through to the end, though I've posted a few snippets below. Even if you usually think I talk utter shit I'd recommend reading it, the arguments are pretty compelling.

You must be logged on to see external links

'Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This

You must be logged on to see external links

into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.'

'Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.'

'To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.'

and the rest

exactly why i have no time for them as they are the enemy of working people and indeed the poor

 

[Bagpuss]

right wing media bias klaxon

We have a media in Britain that is dominated by right wing media moguls and that are largely tory supporting. Im not sure why this is so contentious, it is hardly a secret. Even the BBC has been outed for its tory bias

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[Skandhaless]

right wing media bias klaxon

Normal bullshit klaxon . Game over

 

[Le Chuck]

The Tories won because they're better lairs, and they broke the law..

Hidden in volcanoes off a Caribbean island & that, like a proper Bond baddie?

 

[sedling]

No mate, Im telling you it wasnt poor because it was virtually identical to an election performance that was lauded as superb at the last council elections. How can it be that a virtually identical set of results are now claimed to be a disaster. Oh aye, cause that fits in the the right wing medias agenda of course

You need to check the facts mate...

Some examples below :


2012 results

Councils

Labour 61 +22

Conservative 42 -10


2014 results

Councils

Labour 82 +6

Conservative 41 -11



2015 results

Councils

Conservative 163 +32

Labour 74 -3


2016 results

Councils

Labour 58 +0

Conservative 38 -1


You're confusing 'Holding' with 'Winning' imo

Labour seem to be fading since 2012 on the actual results.

I'm fed up with all this tribal conspiracy bollox from both sides. Too much reaction these days is just thoughtless tripe based upon the concept of no middle ground.

If you're not 'A' then you must be 'B', there is nothing else, everyone's at it.

 

[Big Sharp Teeth]

Best piece of writing I've seen so far on the situation Labour currently find themselves in, definitely worth a read right through to the end, though I've posted a few snippets below. Even if you usually think I talk utter shit I'd recommend reading it, the arguments are pretty compelling.

You must be logged on to see external links

'Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This

You must be logged on to see external links

into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.'

'Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.'

'To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.'

The article is pretty much spot on.

 

[FC United of Manchester]

Best piece of writing I've seen so far on the situation Labour currently find themselves in, definitely worth a read right through to the end, though I've posted a few snippets below. Even if you usually think I talk utter shit I'd recommend reading it, the arguments are pretty compelling.

You must be logged on to see external links

'Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This

You must be logged on to see external links

into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.'

'Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.'

'To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.'

Instead of keep spouting your drivel about nasty left this and nasty left that, why don't you tell us which specific Labour Party policies are too 'left wing' for the country to support and what you think they should be instead.

 

[Deleted User 2893]

How video killed the radio star

 

[Flash Gordon]

So for Labour to get elected they have to be more like the current establishment? That's exactly the myth that they want you to believe. There's no such thing as a left wing alternative in this country, any attempt to make a shift to the left is pounced upon by the media and the right as soft, weak, liberal and these days even dangerous. Labour need to move to the left so that the people can see that there is an alternative to the current establishment and the way things are. Whats the point in voting for a Labour Party that is only slightly to the left of the Tories? Nothing ever changes if there's no real alternative.

 

[Newcastle Fan]

Instead of keep spouting your drivel about nasty left this and nasty left that, why don't you tell us which specific Labour Party policies are too 'left wing' for the country to support and what you think they should be instead.

'Drivel'



Actually some of Labour's most popular policies in 2015 were their most left wing policies.

But you can't implement some key left wing policies without a generally moderate platform, the electorate just won't let you.

 

[FC United of Manchester]

'Drivel'



Actually some of Labour's most popular policies in 2015 were their most left wing policies.

But you can't implement some key left wing policies without a generally moderate platform, the electorate just won't let you.

Stop keep dodging the issue with meaningless generalisations man. I'll ask you once again which of current labour policies are too left for the country and what should they be instead.
You keep telling us the party is too 'left' so back it up with some facts about which policies are too left.

 

[Locke's SAFC]

Best piece of writing I've seen so far on the situation Labour currently find themselves in, definitely worth a read right through to the end, though I've posted a few snippets below. Even if you usually think I talk utter shit I'd recommend reading it, the arguments are pretty compelling.

You must be logged on to see external links

'Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This

You must be logged on to see external links

into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.'

'Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.'

'To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.'

The Labour Party lost because the principles of the party hold little relevance in this age. Mind you, the Conservative Party has lost a certain amount of relevance but it has more to offer to the people of this age than the Labour Party.

This has been demonstrated in that they had to move to the centre to become electable, which begs the question: what then is the point of the Labour Party?

There are two serious hurdles for the Labour Party today:

Firstly, the Labour Party was borne out of an age of social unrest and poverty, it's very reason for being, and by comparison that state of affairs simply does not exist in this country today. What is the point in offering a solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist?

Secondly, when the Labour Party was formed people didn't have the benefit of hindsight as to the dangers of centralised power. We on the other hand know all about the worst excesses of Socialism and Communism, including keeping an inordinate amount of files on your people and outright murder, and the relatively mild excess of cronyism, waste, inefficiency etc. They have had their chance and lost the argument. People now know what will inevitably come from a left-wing government. Yes, it will begin with heart-rendering stories about saving the poor and 'making them equal' but will end in the 'New Emperors Clothes', because that is the reality of human nature and the self-serving illusion.

So, the argument has been lost. There is no 'class war' to be had anymore, and while I know a lot of people in the rural areas who still adhere to the old Conservative philosophy I don't anyone who gives a shite about the grand ideal of left-wing politics aimed at building a just world - everyone's too busy watching Netflix and eating pizza - as I say, the argument was lost by the Labour Party a long time ago even though you might hear of a few advocates on here offering a few words but absolutely no action, in other words not really meant.

It's over for the Labour Party, a dying philosophy which lost the argument in part because it wasn't a very good argument, borne out by so-call left-wingers who are as materialistic as anyone else, and in part because of their behaviour when they had their chance - as it turned out, their shite didn't smell any better than anyone else's - and when you consider that was what they were campaigning on, their 'justness', then that was never going to endear themselves to society in the long term.

Yes, there are corrupt politicians that exist outside of the Labour Party, and of course we have unelected officials who have a voice over us, and our democracy is only democratic in part, and there are people with a shit load of money probably paying very little tax. But, this only serves to highlight how outdated the Labour Party is because most people in this country, as shown through the voting booths, would take that over a left-wing government. The better of two bad options with the latter being particularly bad. It's over, finished, no need for a Labour Party, they'll go the way of the Liberal Party in 30 years or so because they simply have little if anything to offer today's England.