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Wijnaldum

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Clueless said:
It is about quality and not about displays of wealth. We have resorted to Wales' second best right back, their best being Chris Gunter of Nottingham Forest. Matthews appears to have played about 780 minutes of international football (the approximate equivalent of not quite nine full games) in four seasons.

I predict that Byram will prove to be the far better player, who would have justified the additional expense
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Seen much of Byram, and Mathews for that matter, to much this miraculous assumption?
 

Clueless said:
It does seem rather incontrovertible, doesn't it ? Indeed, the only evidence there can be of anyone signing is them actually signing. It is in the nature of it being evidence.

I would respectfully point out that the players that I listed are not an exclusive or exhaustive list, but rather indicative examples of the level of quality that I believe is required. However, I am sure there are many top quality players who could contribute to SAFC making the step change necessary to represent significant improvement. Players whose reputation for being top quality goes before then and whose star is on the rise or in the ascendancy, rather than on the wane. Players whose best days are with them and before them, rather than behind them. Players who have something about them, who can make things happen and have those of us watching sit up and take notice ,rather than have us muttering "Well I suppose we need eleven on the pitch - he'll at least make up the numbers". I would be happy to see any such players wielding the scarf after signing

However If you meant what indication of SAFC attempting to sign some/any players would I be happy with. then the answer is an unequivocal 'none'. I am not prepared to jump for joy at an unsubstantiated internet rumour, which then gains traction by virtue of the number of times it is repeated and reported. Frankly, I'm sick of SAFC promising big and delivering small. As fans, we should be demanding the best and most effective players realistically available, rather than rejoicing over any middling journeyman, if only on the grounds of the associated resources efficiency.

Incidentally, what evidence of high quality players signing are you prepared to accept ?



Please accept my apologies. It was never my intention to be so.

However, I just despair at the forelock tugging, 'we are not worthy', 'ever so 'umble' willingness of many on here to meekly accept and, worse, justify, why SAFC should not be expected to challenge and compete for the services of high quality players and to frequently succeed in those challenges. The grasping at straws (for example, "We are getting our squad level players in first and then we'll bring in the big ones) just boils my piss.

Would the receipt of my first ever 'smiley face' be of any comfort ? :lol:
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The length of your posts you've obviously got far too much time on your hands. And why worry about things that
A) you have no control over
B) hasn't happened yet.
 
rocky said:
All that waffle and still no further forward.
Click to expand...

"...Still no further forward" What are you expecting ? We are exchanging words on a messageboard.

I did ask you what your own evidentiary standards are. You have chosen not to provide details. Progress is difficult without engagement.
 
Billy Batts said:
Seen much of Byram, and Mathews for that matter, to much this miraculous assumption?
Click to expand...

Yes I have seen quite a bit of Byram and similarly so with Matthews, I suppose (on TV). One made a lasting impression, the other slipped by virtually unnoticed. There may be a reason for that.
 
Clueless said:
It is about quality and not about displays of wealth. We have resorted to Wales' second best right back, their best being Chris Gunter of Nottingham Forest. Matthews appears to have played about 780 minutes of international football (the approximate equivalent of not quite nine full games) in four seasons.

I predict that Byram will prove to be the far better player, who would have justified the additional expense
Click to expand...

Both have an extremely similar pedigree, Matthews was courted by Man Utd for some time, he made his first International appearance at 19 and played a full season for Celtic playing in Champions League games. It seems it was only an injury that has hindered any further progression. I don't know who the better player is as neither have made the step up to the Premier League yet. However with similar qualities and both highly regarded by their peers, if we have got one for a quarter of the cost of the other one so that maybe we can spend those funds on a more experienced player in another position i would say well played SAFC.
 
Clueless said:
It is about quality and not about displays of wealth. We have resorted to Wales' second best right back, their best being Chris Gunter of Nottingham Forest. Matthews appears to have played about 780 minutes of international football (the approximate equivalent of not quite nine full games) in four seasons.

I predict that Byram will prove to be the far better player, who would have justified the additional expense
Click to expand...
Based on what though? Matthews may have only played 780 mins of international football and be (disingenuously described by you as) Wales' second best left back. However that's still more that byram has played. He's also excelled at times at CL level. Now excuse me if you've seen lots of both of them but the impression you give is that the only logical differentiation between the two is the asking price
 
Clueless said:
It is about quality and not about displays of wealth. We have resorted to Wales' second best right back, their best being Chris Gunter of Nottingham Forest. Matthews appears to have played about 780 minutes of international football (the approximate equivalent of not quite nine full games) in four seasons.

I predict that Byram will prove to be the far better player, who would have justified the additional expense
Click to expand...

None of this really means anything other than Chris Coleman thinks Chris Gunter fits into his Wales team better. His Wales team playing a different formation to the one we favour. Gunter played as one of 3 centre backs in the game against Belgium. He also left Nottingham Forest 3 years ago...

Ikechi Anya struggles to get into the Watford team, yet plays for Scotland regularly ahead of Matt Phillips and Jordan Rhodes.
 
janey said:
The length of your posts you've obviously got far too much time on your hands. And why worry about things that
A) you have no control over
B) hasn't happened yet.
Click to expand...

Please don't get jealous, size isn't everything (or so I'm told) I am laid up with an injury to my Achilles tendon, However, I'm not worried about anything, particularly not about SAFC or our transfer activity/inactivity, I'm merely putting forward my opinion. I trust that this is OK with you. Then again, I'm not bothered if it isn't OK with you.
 
Clueless said:
Please don't get jealous, size isn't everything (or so I'm told) I am laid up with an injury to my Achilles tendon, However, I'm not worried about anything, particularly not about SAFC or our transfer activity/inactivity, I'm merely putting forward my opinion. I trust that this is OK with you. Then again, I'm not bothered if it isn't OK with you.[/
I'd suggest you are worried, or there wouldn't be lengthy after lengthy posts suggesting otherwise. To deny that is silly really, that's my opinion if it's okay with you, then again, like you, I'm not bothered either if it isn't okay with you
Click to expand...
 
Clueless said:
It does seem rather incontrovertible, doesn't it ? Indeed, the only evidence there can be of anyone signing is them actually signing. It is in the nature of it being evidence.

I would respectfully point out that the players that I listed are not an exclusive or exhaustive list, but rather indicative examples of the level of quality that I believe is required. However, I am sure there are many top quality players who could contribute to SAFC making the step change necessary to represent significant improvement. Players whose reputation for being top quality goes before then and whose star is on the rise or in the ascendancy, rather than on the wane. Players whose best days are with them and before them, rather than behind them. Players who have something about them, who can make things happen and have those of us watching sit up and take notice ,rather than have us muttering "Well I suppose we need eleven on the pitch - he'll at least make up the numbers". I would be happy to see any such players wielding the scarf after signing

However If you meant what indication of SAFC attempting to sign some/any players would I be happy with. then the answer is an unequivocal 'none'. I am not prepared to jump for joy at an unsubstantiated internet rumour, which then gains traction by virtue of the number of times it is repeated and reported. Frankly, I'm sick of SAFC promising big and delivering small. As fans, we should be demanding the best and most effective players realistically available, rather than rejoicing over any middling journeyman, if only on the grounds of the associated resources efficiency.

Incidentally, what evidence of high quality players signing are you prepared to accept ?



Please accept my apologies. It was never my intention to be so.

However, I just despair at the forelock tugging, 'we are not worthy', 'ever so 'umble' willingness of many on here to meekly accept and, worse, justify, why SAFC should not be expected to challenge and compete for the services of high quality players and to frequently succeed in those challenges. The grasping at straws (for example, "We are getting our squad level players in first and then we'll bring in the big ones) just boils my piss.

Would the receipt of my first ever 'smiley face' be of any comfort ? :lol:
Click to expand...

Did not read
 
The Cabbage said:
Based on what though? Matthews may have only played 780 mins of international football and be (disingenuously described by you as) Wales' second best left back. However that's still more that byram has played. He's also excelled at times at CL level. Now excuse me if you've seen lots of both of them but the impression you give is that the only logical differentiation between the two is the asking price
Click to expand...

OK, for the sake of accuracy, I said that Matthews is a right-back (which he is) not a left back (as you suggest) and he plays for a relatively small nation for whom football is not even the principal sport, thus reducing the competition for places in the national squad, one would have thought. You say he has occasionally excelled in Champions League games. Which ones, because I didn't notice this excellence.

Byram is two years younger and is English, with significantly greater competition for places in the national team and squad.

The key differentiation is not price but the level of talent each has. My point was that I think that Byram would have provided better performances on the pitch, thus justifying the greater expense. Whereas Matthews is likely to be gone and forgotten in a couple of years.
 
Clueless said:
OK, for the sake of accuracy, I said that Matthews is a right-back (which he is) not a left back (as you suggest) and he plays for a relatively small nation for whom football is not even the principal sport, thus reducing the competition for places in the national squad, one would have thought. You say he has occasionally excelled in Champions League games. Which ones, because I didn't notice this excellence.

Byram is two years younger and is English, with significantly greater competition for places in the national team and squad.

The key differentiation is not price but the level of talent each has. My point was that I think that Byram would have provided better performances on the pitch, thus justifying the greater expense. Whereas Matthews is likely to be gone and forgotten in a couple of years.
Click to expand...

I believe he was MotM against Barcelona.
 
Clueless said:
OK, for the sake of accuracy, I said that Matthews is a right-back (which he is) not a left back (as you suggest) and he plays for a relatively small nation for whom football is not even the principal sport, thus reducing the competition for places in the national squad, one would have thought. You say he has occasionally excelled in Champions League games. Which ones, because I didn't notice this excellence.

Byram is two years younger and is English, with significantly greater competition for places in the national team and squad.

The key differentiation is not price but the level of talent each has. My point was that I think that Byram would have provided better performances on the pitch, thus justifying the greater expense. Whereas Matthews is likely to be gone and forgotten in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
How many times have you genuinely seen either play?
 
Clueless said:
OK, for the sake of accuracy, I said that Matthews is a right-back (which he is) not a left back (as you suggest) and he plays for a relatively small nation for whom football is not even the principal sport, thus reducing the competition for places in the national squad, one would have thought. You say he has occasionally excelled in Champions League games. Which ones, because I didn't notice this excellence.

Byram is two years younger and is English, with significantly greater competition for places in the national team and squad.

The key differentiation is not price but the level of talent each has. My point was that I think that Byram would have provided better performances on the pitch, thus justifying the greater expense. Whereas Matthews is likely to be gone and forgotten in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
if ever a poster needed a sub-editor....
 
Clueless said:
However If you meant what indication of SAFC attempting to sign some/any players would I be happy with. then the answer is an unequivocal 'none'. I am not prepared to jump for joy at an unsubstantiated internet rumour, which then gains traction by virtue of the number of times it is repeated and reported.
Click to expand...

Clueless said:
. Additionally there are also several prospective deals, not least of which is the proposed move of Wijnaldum to Newcastle.
Click to expand...

Just thought I'd point this out. First post, You say you won't listen to any rumours about SAFC because You don't believe them. Second post,You were complaning we weren't moving as quickly as we should and getting left behind on the basis of the Wijnaldum to the Mags rumour. You should really decide if you believe rumours or not.
 
TartanMackem said:
None of this really means anything other than Chris Coleman thinks Chris Gunter fits into his Wales team better. His Wales team playing a different formation to the one we favour. Gunter played as one of 3 centre backs in the game against Belgium. He also left Nottingham Forest 3 years ago...

Ikechi Anya struggles to get into the Watford team, yet plays for Scotland regularly ahead of Matt Phillips and Jordan Rhodes.
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing out my error. Of course, you are right, Chris Gunter has moved onto bigger and better things at Reading - that makes all the difference !

However, I accept, without reservation, your point that some players are a better fit for certain managers and the systems they employ. Regardless, I don't actually believe that being an international is any sort of guarantee of quality. The point of my mentioning Matthews' number of games and minutes of play was to challenge those people who use the fact of a player being an international as a short-hand for 'must be quality', when this really isn't so.

Mackem Messiah said:
Did not read
Click to expand...

Do not care
 
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