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This'll be the Torygrapgh barred in Liverpool

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Lanchesterredandwhite said:
Completely agree.

There is a very obvious reason why Liverpool were involved in incidents in the European Cup Final and an FA Cup semi final within a few years and, for example, we weren't.

However, going back to the Telegraph article, I think there is some truth in the claims by the Italian author - "From 1985 to 1989, the English were only angry about being banned from Europe, Heysel and Hillsborough had three important similarities: the disorganisation of the authorities, the behaviour of the police, and the fact that innocent people died. If the English had understood Heysel, Hillsborough today would only be the name of a stadium, not of a disaster."

The response to Heysel in this country showed a complete lack of understanding all around. The Government started pissing around with membership schemes and identity cards. The FA started inventing daft new trophies to replace the European tournaments. The general public wringed their hands because football fans were seen as an underclass who deserved what they got if they went to football matches. English football fans got annoyed by being banned from Europe and pointed to continental hooliganism. And nobody, until Lord Justice Taylor after Hillsborough, gave a thought to crowd safety, whether that be caused by fire, crushing, incompetent police, or hooliganism.
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Some good points and it's relevant that unexpected things happened in a weird domino effect.

It may explain why some Italians, including Juventus supporters, turned into football hooligans.

Before Heysel I can't remember then being notorious for football violence, these day they're always happy to poke a knife in you.

I might be way off the mark and I've no doubt I'll be put straight by someone.
 

This is almost the whole evening, I still can't believe that they played the match.
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Jelly Belly said:
I'm glad someone else has mentioned this. My Liverpool supporting Brother in Law was there and witnessed LFC fans mugging fellow LFC fans of their tickets. This is a fact, zero lessons have been learnt and if it wasn't for the fact that stadia has improved over the years since these horrible events then we would definitely be counting more bodies.
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And have you seen how those who are criticizing me for saying the unpalatable truth have completely ignored this and have instead concentrated on shouting about how 'ridiculous' I am being suggesting Liverpool and its fans are hypocritical? So many people on this forum are more interested in giving out personal abuse rather than taking any argument head on.

Without the three layers of filtering the Greeks had in place that night there was every chance there was going to be some kind of disaster. But because the policing were successful in avoiding a disaster, Liverpool and it's fans were never held to account for their behaviour, and the police ended up getting slated anyway. In fact I remember the Liverpool fans complaining that many fans with legitimate tickets were turned away, which apparently was the police's fault. Did they want them to be admitted and cause a potential crush? Did they point the finger and those of their own fans who had once again stormed the gates?

Thousands of fans traveling to the match without tickets in the express aim of getting in one way or another is an extremely dangerous scenario, and Liverpool have never done anything to prevent it. If they want your fans with legitimate tickets to get in to the stadium, they need to try dealing with the scumbags that continually cheat their way in.
 
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Reiver said:
:lol:

How can I prove it wrong?

By definition if people refuse to talk about, and ignore it, there won't be any record of their hand washing.

I can't prove it but don't have to believe it.

By the same token you can't prove that 'no one connected to Liverpool have sought to wash their hands of it' can you?
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So Liverpool FC reject their blame for Heysel, and there's nothing backing it up on the whole internet?

Incredible really. It's almost as if it's not true or something.
 
not spavin said:
So Liverpool FC reject their blame for Heysel, and there's nothing backing it up on the whole internet?

Incredible really. It's almost as if it's not true or something.
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This is all Liverpool have to say on their official website where they accept no blame whatsoever.

Yes, I'd say this is well & truly washing their hands and rejecting any blame.

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"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final.
The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."

No, LFC, they didn't 'lose their lives', through carelessness, they were taken from them as a direct result of the actions of people from Liverpool.

Some of your supporters were convicted of causing the deaths of those innocent people.
 
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Chappers said:
I was In Paris with the school at the time. I was 12 and went into the tv room to watch the match with some mates.

Was informed by thr French there that we were English scum and not welcome and to get out. I remember it turning a little Nasty. Ever since I've not liked the French or Liverpool.
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:eek:
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
Yes, it is sport, so the day that Liverpool's fans decided to pour rocks upon other fans and chase them to their death, they gave up their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit.
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It was 30 years ago. I doubt many aged under 40 today were in the stadium that night, how long should they be deprived of "their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit"? The idea that a handful of fans involved that night makes millions who weren't even born that day scum is ridiculous and pathetic.
 
Flash Gordon said:
It was 30 years ago. I doubt many aged under 40 today were in the stadium that night, how long should they be deprived of "their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit"? The idea that a handful of fans involved that night makes millions who weren't even born that day scum is ridiculous and pathetic.
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Never the scousers fault just like hilsborough
 
Flash Gordon said:
It was 30 years ago. I doubt many aged under 40 today were in the stadium that night, how long should they be deprived of "their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit"? The idea that a handful of fans involved that night makes millions who weren't even born that day scum is ridiculous and pathetic.
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They have that right, who's saying any different?

What they can't do is pretend that Hillsborough & Heysel never happened.

Leeds are still called 'dirty', Millwall 'thugs' & Newcastle 'horse punchers' ........ that's just how things are in the world for better or worse.

What you appear to want is simply a fantasy.
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
For me the fact that masses of Liverpool fans continue to show up to games without tickets with the intention of getting in to the ground shows how little they are ready to take responsibility for themselves. It is easy to forget because there were no fatalities, but even as late as the 2007 Champions League final thousands of Liverpool supporters turned up at the stadium without tickets, and many got in. The Greek police were criticised with how they handled the situation, and for the unpleasantness outside the stadium including the use of tear gas, but they dealt with it a lot better than the police did at Hillsborough. If there had been a crush and fatalities, who would the supporters have been blaming? The police, of course. Not for one second would they point the finger at the thousands of fans who should have been nowhere near there. Even though over 25 years have passed since the Hillsborough disaster nobody at Liverpool seems to want to admit that they have a problem with fans turning up at matches without tickets trying to force their way into matches.
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I remember watching the match and TV cameras outside DEFINITELY showed Liverpool 'fans' robbing Liverpool fans outside of the stadium. I remember footage of one bloke with a child pulling tickets out of his pocket and a Liverpool 'fan' ran up and snatched the tickets from his hand and ran to get through the turnstile.

Also after that final there was a rumour went around that the reason why there was no close up TV footage of the Liverpool end was because so many had got through without paying that they were sitting in the aisles because they had no seats.
All uncorroborated by news outlets so to be taken with a good pinch of salt.

Of course all of this doesn't make them all bad, doesn't mean LFC are responsible, doesn't mean all LFC fans should be held responsible.

But after Hillsborough and Hysel you'd think the ones who think that 'steaming' the gates would perhaps pause for thought regarding their actions?

By the way, I have no axe to grind here. I don't like / dislike LFC.
 
Liverpool, the people, the accent, the politics, the sentiment and both clubs - f***ing hate the kernts.

I know it's not right. I just do.
 
If you want to understand the background to what happened.

An article by Tony Evans, Chief Football Reporter for The Times.
Writing about his experiences at Hysel as a 'fan'.

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Reiver said:
This is all Liverpool have to say on their official website where they accept no blame whatsoever.

Yes, I'd say this is well & truly washing their hands and rejecting any blame.

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"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final.
The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."

No, LFC, they didn't 'lose their lives', through carelessness, they were taken from them as a direct result of the actions of people from Liverpool.

Some of your supporters were convicted of causing the deaths of those innocent people.
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The memorial on the club's official site is an example of the club washing its hands of Heysel.

:lol:

Cosmos Rocks said:
Its never the scousers fault. What goes around comes around.
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So they people who died at Hillsborough deserved it?
 
not spavin said:
The memorial on the club's official site is an example of the club washing its hands of Heysel.
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It's an obvious attempt to distance Liverpool from any blame whatsoever ...... only an idiot would think otherwise.

Post as many smiley faces as you wish, it just makes you look more of a pathetic apologist each time.

You simply ignore everything you're incapable of answering which, I suspect, is your sad game.
 
Reiver said:
It's an obvious attempt to distance Liverpool from blame ...... only an idiot would think otherwise.

Post as many smiley faces as you wish, it just makes you look more of a pathetic apologist each time.
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Are you on crack?

So they distance themselves from blame by putting a memorial outside their ground and on their site, hold a memorial game, and mark every anniversary?

Wacky stuff. The old quadruple bluff.
 
not spavin said:
Are you on crack?

So they distance themselves from blame by putting a memorial outside their ground and on their site, hold a memorial game, and mark every anniversary?

Wacky stuff. The old quadruple bluff.
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You're waffling and suggesting I'm on drugs to smokescreen your attempt to avoid the facts.

It's pitiful even by your low standards.

As you're 'drug free' and obviously see yourself as the voice of reason please show me, in the official LFC website where they accept any responsibility.

"On May 29, 1985, defending European Champions Liverpool and Cup Winners Cup holders Juventus were to meet at the Heysel Stadium, Brussels, in the 30th European Cup Final.
The events that took place before kick-off in Block Z of the stadium turned the dream final into a nightmare: thirty-nine fans - mostly Juventus supporters - tragically lost their lives and hundreds more were injured.
May 29 will forever be a day of solemn remembrance for Liverpool FC, Juventus FC and the entire football family."
 
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