Short Is Failing Us

[Perryqhill]

Gyan was here when Bent was here. You suggested he was signed afterwards. As you said, Jones was sold for £8m prior to this and no doubt that money will have gone towards the Gyan deal but with rising TV revenue and the Henderson thrown in to boot the money wasn't completely reinvested. That's fine if we were bringing in quality players but we weren't, we were making large savings on wages and therefore the quality was being replaced with budget basement/risky players.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort, Gyan was signed the summer after Bent arrived I've even listed the deals which took place the season Gyan arrived. I'm talking season by season when naming the deals, you're talking in riddles mentioning different player sales not reinvested in different seasons.

Do you really think when Henderson was sold and O'Shea, Brown, Larsson, Bendtner, Sess etc came in we were making a saving on the wages of Bent and Henderson and the loans?

Gyan will have been signed with some of the Jones money, as I previously said. Common knowlege Bruce wanted rid of Jones and we had to pay a chunk of it to pay him off. You keep talking about money not reinvested and I'm showing you where it has been, but there's some key things which your not picking up on when talking about increased TV deals as such like. Firstly we've lost shit loads during them seasons and the figures show it, we didn't really have some of the money we first invested. Also when signing Gyan we were scraping around trying to raise the money, which resulted in selling the likes of Waghorn when we wanted to keep him. Also when selling Bent the first thing we done was to pay off what we owed Spurs, we then signed Sess. If we really had money to spend at this point, why then did we put the building of the AOL barn on hold until we decided whether or not to take up the option on Muntari?

 

[ollie c]

I would hope he is as the club would be fucked totally without the cash hes had to provide in spades from day one thanks to the over spending on shite that started under Drumaville and we have struggled to get under control since...............

I am sure he would go if a buyer came in but the levels of personal wealth involved these days means these sorts of folk are few and far between.........

You are wasting your time mate.

 

[Perryqhill]

Haway, are you seriously suggesting that Bruce wanted to get rid of one of the league's best strikers who was winning game after game for us? For me, the decline started when we sold Bent and at the time I was all for blaming Bent for wanting more money but having seen the pattern since, it's far more likely to have been a case of cashing in while we could and not wanting to give him a wage increase - short term benefit, long term loss.

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Bent wasn't winning game after game for us at that time, he wasn't even playing well or scoring as regularly as he previously had done.

I'm suggesting that Bruce is well known for wheeling and dealing and that it looked as if we were sorted up front without Bent, but midfield areas needed addressing desperately and after having scraped around for money to sign Gyan, the only way he could sort the midfield was selling Bent.

 

[the streaker]

Haway, are you seriously suggesting that Bruce wanted to get rid of one of the league's best strikers who was winning game after game for us? For me, the decline started when we sold Bent and at the time I was all for blaming Bent for wanting more money but having seen the pattern since, it's far more likely to have been a case of cashing in while we could and not wanting to give him a wage increase - short term benefit, long term loss.

Watching Everton here - why can't we have aspired to be like them? A club that seems to have built gradually and successfully., and when a top player, or great manager leave, they carry on like business as usual. We have their equal in support, facilities and a billionaire owner - why not? Because there has never been a strategy in place to get us there - just one poor, knee-jerk, key decision after another and the only constant is that every top class Sunderland player has his price.

All total guess work and I would place more credence on what the club said at the time about his head being turned by Villa and that he had already met with them and wasn't interested when we offered him more cash to stay..........

Bottom line with Bent was he was a greedy bastard who cut and ran as soon as more cash came calling........over the moon its fucked his career over since.......

 

[Erwin Rommel]

I would hope he is as the club would be fucked totally without the cash hes had to provide in spades from day one thanks to the over spending on shite that started under Drumaville and we have struggled to get under control since...............

I am sure he would go if a buyer came in but the levels of personal wealth involved these days means these sorts of folk are few and far between.........

the club is totally fucked.

 

[the streaker]

the club is totally fucked.

No it would be fucked without him and would have been a lot sooner had Quinny not found the solution to the mess he and Drumaville created by being shit scared of Roy Keane........

Relegation is awful but despite the mess it in leaves in the finances the fact we have Ellis Short here will ensure we do what we usually do and come back in a couple of seasons tops.......

What we do need is stability and that means leaving Poyet in place( presuming he wants to stay)...........

 

[Raffs]

All total guess work and I would place more credence on what the club said at the time about his head being turned by Villa and that he had already met with them and wasn't interested when we offered him more cash to stay..........

Bottom line with Bent was he was a greedy bastard who cut and ran as soon as more cash came calling........over the moon its fucked his career over since.......

Aye, as I said, at the time it was 100% his desire to leave that I put the blame on. But history since has shown us that the club can't wait to cash in on ANY player who looks top class for us, so I am therefore deducing that they weren't to sorry to show him the door rather than beg him to stay and double his wages (or whatever).

 

[the streaker]

Aye, as I said, at the time it was 100% his desire to leave that I put the blame on. But history since has shown us that the club can't wait to cash in on ANY player who looks top class for us, so I am therefore deducing that they weren't to sorry to show him the door rather than beg him to stay and double his wages (or whatever).

I know you are but its total guesswork and I would take more credence with what the club chairman said at the time rather than something plucked out of the air............

 

[Erwin Rommel]

No it would be fucked without him and would have been a lot sooner had Quinny not found the solution to the mess he and Drumaville created by being shit scared of Roy Keane........

Relegation is awful but despite the mess it in leaves in the finances the fact we have Ellis Short here will ensure we do what we usually do and come back in a couple of seasons tops.......

What we do need is stability and that means leaving Poyet in place( presuming he wants to stay)...........

delusional. Short is unlikely to invest anywhere near the money required to get the club promoted in two seasons. If he won't do that now to avoid relegation with revenue from a lucrative tv deal why should he next season in the championship?

 

[ollie c]

delusional. Short is unlikely to invest anywhere near the money required to get the club promoted in two seasons. If he won't do that now to avoid relegation with revenue from a lucrative tv deal why should he next season in the championship?

If he wants to sell it is in his interests to sell as a "going concern" premier league club. Why would he let the value of the club diminish and not do something about it?

 

[the streaker]

delusional. Short is unlikely to invest anywhere near the money to get the club promoted in two seasons. If he won't do that now to avoid relegation with revenue from a lucrative tv deal why should he next season in the championship?

Not at all..............even with the loss of the PL TV cash we will be richer by far than almost all of the clubs we are competing against and a decent manager which Poyet is will get us back up............It wont need anything like the massive investment I presume you think is needed to get out of that league and when the inevitable exodus occurs money will be coming into the club to reshape the side.........

The problem is actually spending the cash when you get back up to stay in the PL as the team that gets you back will need a big reshaping..........

 

[Raffs]

I know you are but its total guesswork and I would take more credence with what the club chairman said at the time rather than something plucked out of the air............

Interesting - your opinion is definitely evidence based what with it being based on club statements. And mine is too, since the club has continued to aggressively sell any top class asset since. One of us must be right I guess...

 

[FootballFan]

This is what happens when you have a hands on chairman who knows nowt about football.

Obviously he has failed, in a million different ways, but I still think the Poyet appointment was a good one, even if it was good only through sheer luck or accident.

 

[the streaker]

Interesting - your opinion is definitely evidence based what with it being based on club statements. And mine is too, since the club has continued to aggressively sell any top class asset since. One of us must be right I guess...

No mines based on evidence as you say.........yours is based on supposition............

And although I cant be arsed to get into detail its a sad fact that as a club we were never going to be able to be able to hold onto the likes of Henderson and Mignolet when bigger clubs with more to offer come calling........we have no choice but to take what we can but we certainly didn't "aggressively sell"either of them....

 

[ollie c]

This is what happens when you have a hands on chairman who knows nowt about football.

Obviously he has failed, in a million different ways, but I still think the Poyet appointment was a good one, even if it was good only through sheer luck or accident.

I thought the accusation was that he was too "hands off" Badly advised? Too quiet? Listening too much to the players? Not listening enough?

 

[the streaker]

This is what happens when you have a hands on chairman who knows nowt about football.

Obviously he has failed, in a million different ways, but I still think the Poyet appointment was a good one, even if it was good only through sheer luck or accident.

How my clubs have hands on Chairman who know about football though.............not that many and Quinny wasn't exactly a roaring success here..........

Fat boy up the road knows the square root of fuck all but the actual key is getting a manager in who can do the job and having stability..................

 

[Erwin Rommel]

No mines based on evidence as you say.........yours is based on supposition............

And although I cant be arsed to get into detail its a sad fact that as a club we were never going to be able to be able to hold onto the likes of Henderson and Mignolet when bigger clubs with more to offer come calling........we have no choice but to take what we can but we certainly didn't "aggressively sell"either of them....

didn't Henderson say at that time he didn't push for the transfer and would have stayed? the club should have kept him for a least a season or two,showed some ambtion. Instead they were happy to cash in on him and look where its got them. You seem to be arguing that we should be grateful to Short for where the club is at, and regardless of facts think he is doing a good job. You even resorting to wild specualtion that the club will be promoted in 2 seasons?

 

[ollie c]

didn't Henderson say at that time he didn't push for the transfer and would have stayed? the club should have kept him for a least a season or two,showed some ambtion. Instead they were happy to cash in on him and look where its got them. You seem to be arguing that we should be grateful to Short for where the club is at, and regardless of facts think he is doing a good job. You even resorting to wild specualtion that the club will be promoted in 2 seasons?

Do you not suspect that Henderson's words were not contrived sound bites? He was hardly going to say "I canna wait to join Liverpool and put as much distance between me and these halfwit midfielders as I can", was he?

 

[Erwin Rommel]

Do you not suspect that Henderson's words were not contrived sound bites? He was hardly going to say "I canna wait to join Liverpool and put as much distance between me and these halfwit midfielders as I can", was he?

ok, he words were contrived
the bottom line is his boots were filled with Vaughan (freebie), Larsson (freebie) and Gardner (spunked 6 million). All sanctioned by the Owners no doubt. And you think they are doing a good job.

 

[ollie c]

ok, he words were contrived
the bottom line is his boots were filled with Vaughan (freebie), Larsson (freebie) and Gardner (spunked 6 million). All sanctioned by the Owners no doubt. And you think they are doing a good job.

I never commented on whether he was doing a good job or not. The fact is that it is in his interests to do a good job. He's made mistakes - certainly - he probably wishes he never met NQ - but ultimately he wants what we all want.