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It will all come out

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raven_5 said:
No, Paolo was terrible at man management, terrible at tactics, terrible at making decisions...
Boot camps like he did in pre-season were common decades ago, since then managers got rid of them and started to train a lot more with the ball.
He doesn't talk to Brown for weeks, then he says he was just testing him. He stripped Cattermole of captaincy, even taken his number from him to gave him to his new quality CM. Then after one game (a good one actually) he completely demolishes the new quality CM, then he tells us Vaughan, Larsson and Gardner are more physical and more agressive than Cabral, then he says they are all better than Cabral, including Cattermole.
He refuses to take good money from Ji and then humiliates him in a cup game.
He relegates Altidore to the bench after scoring a very good goal against Arsenal.

It was an amateurish job and you could see than from space, and his ego is bigger than all Premiership players put together. Just because a manager is angry on the touch line and keeps slagging the players doesn't mean he's good. You could appoint the kit man to shout and keep saying "we should work harder, you clowns" for that. While I think the players should take theit share of the blame, at least some of them look like Premier League players, while Paolo is far from a Prem manager.
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It was stated that the players decided their numbers and Cattermole was nowhere near fit, so why not give it to O'Shea?

How do you know this about Brown?
 

Perryqhill said:
You can't ever lose control, Di Canio had none.

You can't always come in shouting and screaming, tell that to Paolo.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head......Ferguson is right and Di Canio was on the right lines in following his advice, but not reasonable enough to realise there's more than one way to gain control.

Someone pointed out earlier that the bollockings are fine initially, as well as pushing the bad apples out.....but you need to take a few leaders under your wing and make them feel like they're part of the change so if anyone steps out of line they'll nip it in the bud on your behalf.....otherwise it's you against the world and eventually they'll just grow to hate you.
 
Perryqhill said:
Why are you ignoring the Ferguson quotes I've just posted?
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Perry, believe it or not you have not posted anything earth shattering which means I have no reply and must swerve them. Which Ferguson quotes?[DOUBLEPOST=1379960989][/DOUBLEPOST]
wigwams said:
Big difference between knocking people into shape and making them look like twats publicly and treating them like kids in private. He had the right ideas but the only way he knew how to implement them was by bullying.
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I keep asking but no one seems to have an answer: how did he make them look like twats in public?
 
Father Jack Hackett said:
It was stated that the players decided their numbers and Cattermole was nowhere near fit, so why not give it to O'Shea?
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I don't believe it for a second that the players decided to take the number away from their captain to give it to a new player they known for a few days. Just another strange explanation from Paolo.
 
Locke's SAFC said:
Perry, believe it or not you have not posted anything earth shattering which means I have no reply and must swerve them. Which Ferguson quotes?[DOUBLEPOST=1379960989][/DOUBLEPOST]
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A couple of posts of mine back, big Fergie article which more or less says yes you have to have discipline, but how you can't lose control, scream and shout all the time etc. How you've got to deal with issues and move on. You quoted my comments at the bottom of it, but disagreed with what I said, part of which are actual Fergie quotes.

Like I said, maybe you should get up to speed on what Fergie thinks now, not 25 years ago.

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The Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has discussed his management style with Harvard academics. Photograph: John Peters/Man Utd via Getty Images
You must be logged on to see external links
has revealed the secrets of his management style in a series of interviews with Harvard academics – setting out his approach to matches, team talks and disciplining "fragile" millionaires.

Ferguson, who spoke to the Harvard professor Anita Elberse and a former student Tom Dye in a series of interviews in 2011, also travelled to Boston earlier in 2012 to talk to current students about his approach to man-management, leadership skills and communication.

Among the key themes in the report that was based on the interviews – titled
You must be logged on to see external links
– Ferguson discusses his determination to prevent media leaks, how to keep players in line, and how to use a more sensitive approach to keep them happy, too.

"Players these days have lived more sheltered lives, so they are much more fragile now than 25 years ago," said Ferguson, who began life in management with East Stirlingshire in 1974.

"I was very aggressive all those years ago. I am passionate and want to win all the time. But today I'm more mellowed – age does that to you. And I can better handle those more fragile players now."

He added: "There is no room for criticism on the training field. For a player – and for any human being – there is nothing better than hearing 'well done'. Those are the two best words ever invented in sports. You don't need to use superlatives."

However, Ferguson also discussed the need for controlled discipline and respect, alluding to his famous "hairdryer treatment" technique.

"You can't always come in shouting and screaming. That doesn't work. No one likes to get criticised. But in the football dressing room, it's necessary that you point out your players' mistakes. I do it right after the game. I don't wait until Monday, I do it, and it's finished. I'm on to the next match. There is no point in criticising a player forever.

"You can't ever lose control – not when you are dealing with 30 top professionals who are all millionaires. If they misbehave, we fine them, but we keep it indoors. And if anyone steps out of my control, that's them dead."

He emphasised, though, the importance of taking a tailored approach to different individuals.

"One of my players has been sent off several times. He will do something if he gets the chance – even in training. Can I take it out of him? No. Would I want to take it out of him? No. If you take the aggression out of him, he is not himself. So you have to accept that there is a certain flaw that is counterbalanced by all the great things he can do."

He also discussed the best ways to deal with big egos, saying: "When I work with the biggest talents, I tell them that hard work is a talent, too. They need to work harder than anyone else. And if they can no longer bring the discipline that we ask for here at United, they are out.
 
The players can get the club back on track by beating Peterboro and then Liverpool ,anything less and the fans will be very vocal about where the blame lies for our present position .
 
Locke's SAFC said:
Perry, believe it or not you have not posted anything earth shattering which means I have no reply and must swerve them. Which Ferguson quotes?[DOUBLEPOST=1379960989][/DOUBLEPOST]

I keep asking but no one seems to have an answer: how did he make them look like twats in public?
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You haven't seen the post palace match interview? Oshea and ji copped it big time. Why? What possible good was that going to do?
 
YorkMackem said:
I had 24 years in the army working under some of the nastiest individuals you could ever wish to meet. The only ones that ever got good results used the carrot and the stick. Respect must always be earned.
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This if football mate, not the army.
 
Perryqhill said:
A couple of posts of mine back, big Fergie article which more or less says yes you have to have discipline, but how you can't lose control, scream and shout all the time etc. How you've got to deal with issues and move on. You quoted my comments at the bottom of it, but disagreed with what I said, part of which are actual Fergie quotes.

Like I said, maybe you should get up to speed on what Fergie thinks now, not 25 years ago.

Logon or register to see this image

The Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has discussed his management style with Harvard academics. Photograph: John Peters/Man Utd via Getty Images
You must be logged on to see external links
has revealed the secrets of his management style in a series of interviews with Harvard academics – setting out his approach to matches, team talks and disciplining "fragile" millionaires.

Ferguson, who spoke to the Harvard professor Anita Elberse and a former student Tom Dye in a series of interviews in 2011, also travelled to Boston earlier in 2012 to talk to current students about his approach to man-management, leadership skills and communication.

Among the key themes in the report that was based on the interviews – titled
You must be logged on to see external links
– Ferguson discusses his determination to prevent media leaks, how to keep players in line, and how to use a more sensitive approach to keep them happy, too.

"Players these days have lived more sheltered lives, so they are much more fragile now than 25 years ago," said Ferguson, who began life in management with East Stirlingshire in 1974.

"I was very aggressive all those years ago. I am passionate and want to win all the time. But today I'm more mellowed – age does that to you. And I can better handle those more fragile players now."

He added: "There is no room for criticism on the training field. For a player – and for any human being – there is nothing better than hearing 'well done'. Those are the two best words ever invented in sports. You don't need to use superlatives."

However, Ferguson also discussed the need for controlled discipline and respect, alluding to his famous "hairdryer treatment" technique.

"You can't always come in shouting and screaming. That doesn't work. No one likes to get criticised. But in the football dressing room, it's necessary that you point out your players' mistakes. I do it right after the game. I don't wait until Monday, I do it, and it's finished. I'm on to the next match. There is no point in criticising a player forever.

"You can't ever lose control – not when you are dealing with 30 top professionals who are all millionaires. If they misbehave, we fine them, but we keep it indoors. And if anyone steps out of my control, that's them dead."

He emphasised, though, the importance of taking a tailored approach to different individuals.

"One of my players has been sent off several times. He will do something if he gets the chance – even in training. Can I take it out of him? No. Would I want to take it out of him? No. If you take the aggression out of him, he is not himself. So you have to accept that there is a certain flaw that is counterbalanced by all the great things he can do."

He also discussed the best ways to deal with big egos, saying: "When I work with the biggest talents, I tell them that hard work is a talent, too. They need to work harder than anyone else. And if they can no longer bring the discipline that we ask for here at United, they are out.
Click to expand...

Yes, Ferguson was well known for the hair dryer, and I think Beckham ended up with a cut eye in an era when Man Utd won things.

Di Canio hasn't really done anything different and all this bollocks about tomato kethcup - he's not the first nor will be the last to impose a diet on his players - just look at Wenger when he went to Arsenal.

This whole thing is covering up the cold, hard truth that the players are, in Reidy's words, as weak as piss.
 
Locke's SAFC said:
Don't be daft; these are human beings.

Ferguson was fabled for the 'hair dryer'. Keane laid into his team mates. Reidy called his underperforming players weak as piss.

What do they all have in common? They're all winners.
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He was famed for the 'hair dryer' approach, which he himself admitted would not work if he adopted it now.
 
Short may as well have handed the keys to the place over to Cattermole and O'Shea. He's effectively undermined the next bloke too, whoever he is.
 
Locke's SAFC said:
Yes, Ferguson was well known for the hair dryer, and I think Beckham ended up with a cut eye in an era when Man Utd won things.

Di Canio hasn't really done anything different and all this bollocks about tomato kethcup - he's not the first nor will be the last to impose a diet on his players - just look at Wenger when he went to Arsenal.

This whole thing is covering up the cold, hard truth that the players are, in Reidy's words, as weak as piss.
Click to expand...

You've just repeated the same clap trap. Fergie's admitted he had to change, that you can't lose control and shouting and screaming is no good all the time and these days you have to manage egos. You've held Fergie up as the benchmark and even he doesn't agree with you. What part of that can you not grasp?
 
Perryqhill said:
You've just repeated the same clap trap. Fergie's admitted he had to change, that you can't lose control and shouting and screaming is no good all the time. What part of that can you not grasp?
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You patronising cock end.

Ferguson also advised on pointing out players' mistakes and if they fall outside of his control then they're dead.

Ferguson had a group of top players who were top players partly because they understood the need to fall in line with the manager - he himself says in your post that if they hadn't they'd have been gone.

Also, Ferguson is talking about fragile millionaires; players with big egos because they are at the top level of the game. We have players with big egos who are 20th in the f***ing league - big difference - and they'd have been gone under Ferguson.
 
Like many on here, I've heard an account of what supposedly happened yesterday and tbh it sounds a total mess. Yes PDC probably did overstep the mark, but it sounds like the players moved quickly to turn it into a big thing and force him out.

Whoever gets the job, I suspect things will need to change. Next summer when 9 players are out of contract, cant come quick enough
 
Locke's SAFC said:
You patronising cock end.

Ferguson also advised on pointing out players' mistakes and if they fall outside of his control then they're dead.

Ferguson had a group of top players who were top players partly because they understood the need to fall in line with the manager - he himself says in your post that if they hadn't they'd have been gone.

Also, Ferguson is talking about fragile millionaires; players with big egos because they are at the top level of the game. We have players with big egos who are 20th in the f***ing league - big difference - and they'd have been gone under Ferguson.
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Dear God. You're continually ignoring how Ferguson disagrees with you on a few key issues here. If I'm patronising, it's because you're obviously f***ing ignoring it and then repeating what you've already said.

As for the first line there, you've completely taken those two things out of context to suit your argument. He said he would point out players mistakes in the dressing room after a game, nothing wrong with that, but he also said then they'd move on. Notice in the dressing room, not in aftermatch interviews?

He also said "You can't ever lose control – not when you are dealing with 30 top professionals who are all millionaires. If they misbehave, we fine them, but we keep it indoors." Indoors there, see it? You can't lose control, see that too?

"I was vey agressive all those years ago." See the past tense to that quote?

He's talking about management techniques to Harvard University, modern footballers and managing them, not just ones who are top of the league ffs.
 
Perryqhill said:
You've just repeated the same clap trap. Fergie's admitted he had to change, that you can't lose control and shouting and screaming is no good all the time and these days you have to manage egos. You've held Fergie up as the benchmark and even he doesn't agree with you. What part of that can you not grasp?
Click to expand...

He was a monster at a similar age. People learn and at some point we have to. One of these days we have to allow someone time enough to make their mark at the club. I'm not even suggesting this should be Di Canio as he wasn't here long enough to suss either way. All I'm saying is at some f***ing point we have to see it through. No doubt Lerner was shitting himself seeing his record buy sat in the stands as they were being humped sixes and eights but at least he had the balls to stiff it out.
 
---Nemo--- said:
He was a monster at a similar age. People learn and at some point we have to. One of these days we have to allow someone time enough to make their mark at the club. I'm not even suggesting this should be Di Canio as he wasn't here long enough to suss either way. All I'm saying is at some f***ing point we have to see it through. No doubt Lerner was shitting himself seeing his record buy sat in the stands as they were being humped sixes and eights but at least he had the balls to stiff it out.
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Similar age, but different time and different level.

The difference between Ferguson and Di Canio couldn't be bigger, God only knows why he's being used as a comparison in here. Why not Roy Keane, similarly unproven and both tried to rule with an iron fist, both seemingly didn't know their own mind one week from the next and both tried it and failed here.
 
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