Our turnover of playing staff since our last promotion must be the highest.

[Perryqhill]

As I've said Keane did some good here. I'm not dismissing him as a failure by any means just pointing out the unprecedented amount of money he had really should have taken relegation out of the equation not have us in 18th and staring down the barrel at time of his departure!
You seem unable to give Bruce any credit yet he had to almost start from scratch given we stayed up by skin of teeth season before he arrived thanks to the side that Keane had assembled so to claim all it took was a couple of quality arrivals to turn it round is frankly ridiculous Perry and I'd expect better.
I could be wrong but I don't remember ever being in the bottom 3 at any point under Bruce.
The manager who saw fit to spend that on Reo Coker and Davies also decided it would be a good idea to spend 5m on Graham and thought that Cahill wasn't good enough for his Villa side!
My overall point is that I can't understand for life of me (well I can actually but I can't be chewed to argue toss again) how Keane is some kind of hero whilst Bruce is despised!

Again though, you say one thing and then do another, it's clear you have a massive downer on Keane, why else try and twist things or mention it every other day on here at the moment? Why claim Keane wasted our chance, when Bruce had a similar one with a more established squad more recently and we're only just getting rid of his deadwood now?

Keane got us to 15th in his first season. He left us in a poor position after a tough run but it was November, with on paper what looked easier games coming up. Yes maybe we shouldn't have been in that position and maybe he could have spent that bit better, but you never ever take into consideration the context of events, it seems beyond you, it's just black and white and Keane never stayed long enough to fuck things up completely, which Bruce did with his last season of transfers. As for the side Keane built being the one that just kept us up, come on there was a world of difference between Sbragia's side and Keane's, we even got rid of about 5 or 6 players and brought two centre halves on loan. We should have been safe before April arrived that season if Sbragia hadn't sucked the life out of the squad.


I give Bruce credit because he managed to get some good players together and for a couple of spells we looked really good, but he had a golden opportunity to build on what we'd done and he messed it up completely, when for a time it looked he could get something right. Actually no he didn't have to almost start from scratch like you say, that's the biggest load of bollocks going. In Bruce's first season his side revolved mainly around one of his signings, Darren Bent and many of Keane's Gordon, Bardsley, Richardson, Malbranque, Jones, Ferdinand and then Meyler, all being regulars and I think this is the point you keep on missing, it wasn't such a bad base to add quality to. In fact of the players that Bruce signed Mensah spent a long times injured, Turner too IIRC. Cana was eventually left out for Meyler, another Keane signing and Campbell was in and out.

I don't see Keane as a hero, I just think he done very well initially, then it was beyond him, but he got us where we wanted to be. No excuses or nothing. Bruce got us thinking we might move on, we did for a short while and then completely messed it up and started making excuses and contradicting himself, it left a sour taste. You can rant on about Keane wasting his chance all you like, but Bruce had it set up for him - money, some reasonable players, being taken more seriously and a load of players already on the way out.

 

[Mrjardine]

Again though, you say one thing and then do another, it's clear you have a massive downer on Keane, why else try and twist things or mention it every other day on here at the moment? Why claim Keane wasted our chance, when Bruce had a similar one with a more established squad more recently and we're only just getting rid of his deadwood now?

Keane got us to 15th in his first season. He left us in a poor position after a tough run but it was November, with on paper what looked easier games coming up. Yes maybe we shouldn't have been in that position and maybe he could have spent that bit better, but you never ever take into consideration the context of events, it seems beyond you, it's just black and white and Keane never stayed long enough to fuck things up completely, which Bruce did with his last season of transfers. As for the side Keane built being the one that just kept us up, come on there was a world of difference between Sbragia's side and Keane's, we even got rid of about 5 or 6 players and brought two centre halves on loan. We should have been safe before April arrived that season if Sbragia hadn't sucked the life out of the squad.


I give Bruce credit because he managed to get some good players together and for a couple of spells we looked really good, but he had a golden opportunity to build on what we'd done and he messed it up completely, when for a time it looked he could get something right. Actually no he didn't have to almost start from scratch like you say, that's the biggest load of bollocks going. In Bruce's first season his side revolved mainly around one of his signings, Darren Bent and many of Keane's Gordon, Bardsley, Richardson, Malbranque, Jones, Ferdinand and then Meyler, all being regulars and I think this is the point you keep on missing, it wasn't such a bad base to add quality to. In fact of the players that Bruce signed Mensah spent a long times injured, Turner too IIRC. Cana was eventually left out for Meyler, another Keane signing and Campbell was in and out.

I don't see Keane as a hero, I just think he done very well initially, then it was beyond him, but he got us where we wanted to be. No excuses or nothing. Bruce got us thinking we might move on, we did for a short while and then completely messed it up and started making excuses and contradicting himself, it left a sour taste. You can rant on about Keane wasting his chance all you like, but Bruce had it set up for him - money, some reasonable players, being taken more seriously and a load of players already on the way out.

I think it's crystal clear that you have more of a Steve Bruce agenda than I do Keane mind.
You talk about it being November when Keane left and he could have turned it round thus not being here long enough to ruin things yet you claim Bruce did despite it being October when he left also with some promising fixtures coming up and not being as low in the table. Can't have it all ways Perry.
Sbragia sucked life out of squad??? We were 3rd bottom when he took over man! How can you claim we should've been safe by April because under Keane we were showing no signs of that being the case.
As I've said Bruce last window killed him and his failure to replace Bent and Gyan. Both had opportunities to take us forward but I still say more so Keane than Bruce.

 

[Wor Giacchi]

So to confirm, you're looking for stats?

The word 'stats' was used three times in the last two sentences yet didn't appear at all within the first two.

 

[jcrossan]

he was dogshit and we lost cash. Surely that's a waste?

We have different degrees of waste. From Utter and complete to a bit of....would put Turner in the bit of category

 

[Perryqhill]

I think it's crystal clear that you have more of a Steve Bruce agenda than I do Keane mind.
You talk about it being November when Keane left and he could have turned it round thus not being here long enough to ruin things yet you claim Bruce did despite it being October when he left also with some promising fixtures coming up and not being as low in the table. Can't have it all ways Perry.
Sbragia sucked life out of squad??? We were 3rd bottom when he took over man! How can you claim we should've been safe by April because under Keane we were showing no signs of that being the case.
As I've said Bruce last window killed him and his failure to replace Bent and Gyan. Both had opportunities to take us forward but I still say more so Keane than Bruce.

I actually think you'll find I'm generally only coming out with the comparison when you start blaming Keane completely again. As much as I dislike Bruce, I can see a bit of how things happened the way they did. With Keane you see black and you see white, without any kind of context.

No, you're mixing two different things. Firstly I said it was only November when Keane left in response to you talking about being in 18th position. There was plenty of time for someone to make a difference and up to a few weeks previous progress was still being made. However we made the mistake of not getting a manager in and hiring roll over Ricky instead, but that's another story. I also said that Keane never outstayed his welcome, because you're only talking five or six games since the win against the mags and a reasonable start to the season. It was clear we were going backwards, but we didn't have to endure it long and it hadn't turned sour.

Bruce ruined it over because not only did we have a horrendous run of form lasting about 9 months, we had (on a par with last seasons De Fanti one) collectively the worst transfer window of recent years. We had regressed at an alarming rate.

If you have ask why I made the Sbragia comment, then were you out of the country or something at the time? Again you're just seeing black and white here, no context. We'd merely had a month of poor results early in the season when Keane went, with a manager beginning to show signs of breaking. Anyone half competent could have came in and got things going, especially given the Hull and WBA games coming up. Instead we went out for six months simply aiming not to get beat and players like Malbranque were marking space in their own half, Djbrill Cisse was being publically criticised for not holding the ball up and dropped, ignoring what type of player he is and that when playing counter attack football he'd been shit hot earlier in the season, whilst we booted everything to Jones' head and we put up with some weird selections and formations. Towards the end of the season we'd almost done it and Sbragia set the tone for some horrific displays against weak sides, constantly inviting pressure with the set up of the side, he was a truly horrific appointment.

 

[the streaker]

Deep thoughts earning his corn today like................

 

[Mrjardine]

I actually think you'll find I'm generally only coming out with the comparison when you start blaming Keane completely again. As much as I dislike Bruce, I can see a bit of how things happened the way they did. With Keane you see black and you see white, without any kind of context.

No, you're mixing two different things. Firstly I said it was only November when Keane left in response to you talking about being in 18th position. There was plenty of time for someone to make a difference and up to a few weeks previous progress was still being made. However we made the mistake of not getting a manager in and hiring roll over Ricky instead, but that's another story. I also said that Keane never outstayed his welcome, because you're only talking five or six games since the win against the mags and a reasonable start to the season. It was clear we were going backwards, but we didn't have to endure it long and it hadn't turned sour.

Bruce ruined it over because not only did we have a horrendous run of form lasting about 9 months, we had (on a par with last seasons De Fanti one) collectively the worst transfer window of recent years. We had regressed at an alarming rate.

If you have ask why I made the Sbragia comment, then were you out of the country or something at the time? Again you're just seeing black and white here, no context. We'd merely had a month of poor results early in the season when Keane went, with a manager beginning to show signs of breaking. Anyone half competent could have came in and got things going, especially given the Hull and WBA games coming up. Instead we went out for six months simply aiming not to get beat and players like Malbranque were marking space in their own half, Djbrill Cisse was being publically criticised for not holding the ball up and dropped, ignoring what type of player he is and that when playing counter attack football he'd been shit hot earlier in the season, whilst we booted everything to Jones' head and we put up with some weird selections and formations. Towards the end of the season we'd almost done it and Sbragia set the tone for some horrific displays against weak sides, constantly inviting pressure with the set up of the side, he was a truly horrific appointment.

How am I seeing keanes tenure as black and white? I've gave him credit where I believe it warranted and criticised likewise. So many on here seem all knowing when it comes to Beuce and Oneil talking of how it was inevitable that we would drop yet nobody mentions we were in a poorer position under Keane. In the interest of balance that needs to be pointed out.
As for Sbragia I agree he wasn't the answer but the fact remains he kept us up having previously looked a rudderless ship under Keane. Something which you seem loathe to accept. I went to Stoke after Newcastle game and it was as bad as it gets!
As for cisse I don't ever recall him being shit hot mind. Okish at what he did but extremely selfish and constantly mistiming runs and being caught offside. His partnership with Jones never really got off the ground.
As I've also repeatedly said Bruce last window and fact he never replaced Bent and Gyan was the death knell for him as well as his record in derby games.
You again pick out a game that Keane won around a month before his slump to try and suggest that things weren't all that bad. Only a few weeks prior to Bruceys dismissal we had trounced Stoke also. So if the cap fits for Royston...........

 

[gipetto]

Keane spent over 60m net in the premier and just about every one was f***ing gash and no resale value

You're always negative you.

 

[Mrjardine]

You're always negative you.

Got to be honest gippy your negativity has surprised me lately mind. Have my posts finally worn you down?

 

[Nelson!]

I think it's crystal clear that you have more of a Steve Bruce agenda than I do Keane mind.
You talk about it being November when Keane left and he could have turned it round thus not being here long enough to ruin things yet you claim Bruce did despite it being October when he left also with some promising fixtures coming up and not being as low in the table. Can't have it all ways Perry.
Sbragia sucked life out of squad??? We were 3rd bottom when he took over man! How can you claim we should've been safe by April because under Keane we were showing no signs of that being the case.
As I've said Bruce last window killed him and his failure to replace Bent and Gyan. Both had opportunities to take us forward but I still say more so Keane than Bruce.

You think wrong. Your posts are so one sided its embarrassing.

Keane had the better opportunities? Absolute crap. His first season back we were like a lepper colony. Nod one wanted to join. He changed the perception of SAFC and brought in the majority of the best performers under Bruce.

Both ultimately failed but their starting platforms were miles apart.

 

[Perryqhill]

How am I seeing keanes tenure as black and white? I've gave him credit where I believe it warranted and criticised likewise. So many on here seem all knowing when it comes to Beuce and Oneil talking of how it was inevitable that we would drop yet nobody mentions we were in a poorer position under Keane. In the interest of balance that needs to be pointed out.
As for Sbragia I agree he wasn't the answer but the fact remains he kept us up having previously looked a rudderless ship under Keane. Something which you seem loathe to accept. I went to Stoke after Newcastle game and it was as bad as it gets!
As for cisse I don't ever recall him being shit hot mind. Okish at what he did but extremely selfish and constantly mistiming runs and being caught offside. His partnership with Jones never really got off the ground.
As I've also repeatedly said Bruce last window and fact he never replaced Bent and Gyan was the death knell for him as well as his record in derby games.
You again pick out a game that Keane won around a month before his slump to try and suggest that things weren't all that bad. Only a few weeks prior to Bruceys dismissal we had trounced Stoke also. So if the cap fits for Royston...........

We were in a poorer position under Keane? Technically we were, as we were lower in the league but it was so early and the rot hadn't set in like with the other two managers.

Keane went at the end of November, 5 weeks or so after a win against the mags and two weeks after a win against Blackburn. In the next four games we had games against Hull, WBA and Blackburn (who we'd just beat) coming up. The league was very tight and we'd been unlucky in some games, but took some trouncings off the big boys.

Bruce had went 9 months, with about three home wins and had just made an appalling set of transfers. We were sliding and had just been beaten at home to Wigan and won just one home game all season (the Stoke win you talk about two and a half months earlier), this was also the end of November when he was sacked. The difference was minimal, just a longer slide under Bruce and less good will because of decent home performances.

The idea we were in a poorer situation in those two situations to when O'Neill left defies belief and it shows just how you are showing no balance with regards Keane i.e. everything black or white.

Cisse started the season very well. As for Bruce's record in derby games, had he not played them up early on, then his side never performed (lets not forget the music he told us he would play when we beat them at the SOL after the 5-1) then people wouldn't have cared so much, just like everyone was behind him when we went on a good run after the 5-1.

 

[Mrjardine]

You think wrong. Your posts are so one sided its embarrassing.

Keane had the better opportunities? Absolute crap. His first season back we were like a lepper colony. Nod one wanted to join. He changed the perception of SAFC and brought in the majority of the best performers under Bruce.

Both ultimately failed but their starting platforms were miles apart.

My posts one sided ?? Think you need to check again. I have given Keane praise where it's due I've seen precious little of perry affording Bruce that same courtesy but that may be ok as it probably satisfies your Bruce agenda.
What is all this nonsense about how unattractive a proposition we were? We had cash to burn that in itself is enough to make any club appealing to a player. The base that Bruce started from should have been a helluva lot better than it was. As I have pointed out the side he inherited had finished within a whisker of the drop zone. I fail to see how this is such a wonderful starting point mind. Perry then decides to lay the blame for that squarely at Sbragias door when Keane had left them in the drop zone. As I've said Sbragia wasn't the answer but if you and many others can use the old Keane kept us up job done rhetoric then why can the same not be said for Ricky? What's good for the goose and all that.
Whatever peoples perception is of Bruceys time here he led us to a 10th place finish. What happens then is rather than day well done Steve we talk bout how it could have been worse if wasn't for last day blah blah blah. Over 38 games that was achieved not over 1.
All I have tried to do is understand why one is so revered in comparison to the other. The pro Keane brigade can't actually bring themselves to criticise without trying to get some kind of defence in first. I on other hand have pointed out how were I felt Bruce went wrong and also that he needs to share some of the blame for us continually being in a dogfight for survival. I'm of the opinion that Keane should take the lions share though. I have no problem with people believing it to be Bruce as the main perpetrator but to lay all the blame at him and let Keane off the hook completely I find baffling.

We were in a poorer position under Keane? Technically we were, as we were lower in the league but it was so early and the rot hadn't set in like with the other two managers.

Keane went at the end of November, 5 weeks or so after a win against the mags and two weeks after a win against Blackburn. In the next four games we had games against Hull, WBA and Blackburn (who we'd just beat) coming up. The league was very tight and we'd been unlucky in some games, but took some trouncings off the big boys.

Bruce had went 9 months, with about three home wins and had just made an appalling set of transfers. We were sliding and had just been beaten at home to Wigan and won just one home game all season (the Stoke win you talk about two and a half months earlier), this was also the end of November when he was sacked. The difference was minimal, just a longer slide under Bruce and less good will because of decent home performances.

The idea we were in a poorer situation in those two situations to when O'Neill left defies belief and it shows just how you are showing no balance with regards Keane i.e. everything black or white.

Cisse started the season very well. As for Bruce's record in derby games, had he not played them up early on, then his side never performed (lets not forget the music he told us he would play when we beat them at the SOL after the 5-1) then people wouldn't have cared so much, just like everyone was behind him when we went on a good run after the 5-1.

The rot hadn't set in? We were 18th and had just been humped at home to a bang average side!
You then talk about horrendous transfers? Diouf,Ferdinand,McCartney and Healy!
You then mention a few easier games Had Wolves and Blackburn to come.
As you say the difference was extremely minimal bordering on identical !
Do I believe we'd have dropped under Oneil? Yes I do. However we don't know for certain much like we didn't under Bruce or Keane. All we can do is speculate. We were however lower in the table under Keane albeit a lot earlier in season.
Let's face it if Gus had walked or been sacked after Everton game and somebody came in and performed the miracle we would all have unanimously said that we would've gone under Poyet.
All opinions at end of day.

 

[Perryqhill]

My posts one sided ?? Think you need to check again. I have given Keane praise where it's due I've seen precious little of perry affording Bruce that same courtesy but that may be ok as it probably satisfies your Bruce agenda.

Give over, I've actually give Bruce credit, but pointed out how's and where's, even though I don't like the bloke. All you do is give grudging credit saying Keane got us up and add he done so spending more than McCarthy, then criticise him for overspending ignoring the situation

What is all this nonsense about how unattractive a proposition we were? We had cash to burn that in itself is enough to make any club appealing to a player.

Not this shite again. Niall Quinn even said at the time although we had money to spend, we probably had it at the wrong time. He said so because we transfer fees were high and we couldn't pay anymore than most other clubs. Unless we can pay more, how do we make ourselves attractive?

The base that Bruce started from should have been a helluva lot better than it was. As I have pointed out the side he inherited had finished within a whisker of the drop zone. I fail to see how this is such a wonderful starting point mind. Perry then decides to lay the blame for that squarely at Sbragias door when Keane had left them in the drop zone. As I've said Sbragia wasn't the answer but if you and many others can use the old Keane kept us up job done rhetoric then why can the same not be said for Ricky? What's good for the goose and all that.

We know Keane wasted money, but again you have little regard for what he had to deal with and our starting position. It was a good starting point for Bruce as he had about 20 pro players, 5 or 6 already sold, five or six more half way out of the door and Gordon, Bardsley, Ferdinand, Malbranque, Jones, Richardson, Meyler, Henderson etc already at the club, with money to spend. It meant he had a core in place and could just aim at getting quality. It's not such a hard concept to understand is it?

Whatever peoples perception is of Bruceys time here he led us to a 10th place finish. What happens then is rather than day well done Steve we talk bout how it could have been worse if wasn't for last day blah blah blah. Over 38 games that was achieved not over 1.

Very true, for a while we looked exceptional too, but the form didn't even last the season, by the end of January we were a shadow of the side that was playing great football.

All I have tried to do is understand why one is so revered in comparison to the other. The pro Keane brigade can't actually bring themselves to criticise without trying to get some kind of defence in first. I on other hand have pointed out how were I felt Bruce went wrong and also that he needs to share some of the blame for us continually being in a dogfight for survival. I'm of the opinion that Keane should take the lions share though. I have no problem with people believing it to be Bruce as the main perpetrator but to lay all the blame at him and let Keane off the hook completely I find baffling.

But you also can't give Keane any credit without criticising too.

Keane changed the perception of the club and got the pride back. He along with the men providing the money put the spadework in. He was out of his depth in the top level, but got a respectable finish and then started to fail and left before it got too deep.

Bruce oversaw a big slide backwards and his signings set us up for a lull that followed. He then acted like a twat before he left and after in the press. It's not too difficult to understand why some have some positive feelings towards Keane and not too many towards Bruce.

 

[Mrjardine]

We were in a poorer position under Keane? Technically we were, as we were lower in the league but it was so early and the rot hadn't set in like with the other two managers.

Keane went at the end of November, 5 weeks or so after a win against the mags and two weeks after a win against Blackburn. In the next four games we had games against Hull, WBA and Blackburn (who we'd just beat) coming up. The league was very tight and we'd been unlucky in some games, but took some trouncings off the big boys.

Bruce had went 9 months, with about three home wins and had just made an appalling set of transfers. We were sliding and had just been beaten at home to Wigan and won just one home game all season (the Stoke win you talk about two and a half months earlier), this was also the end of November when he was sacked. The difference was minimal, just a longer slide under Bruce and less good will because of decent home performances.

The idea we were in a poorer situation in those two situations to when O'Neill left defies belief and it shows just how you are showing no balance with regards Keane i.e. everything black or white.

Cisse started the season very well. As for Bruce's record in derby games, had he not played them up early on, then his side never performed (lets not forget the music he told us he would play when we beat them at the SOL after the 5-1) then people wouldn't have cared so much, just like everyone was behind him when we went on a good run after the 5-1.

Apologies didn't respond to last paragraph.
Cisse started ok but he was never really my cup of tea to be honest. Was pleased we never took up our option on him.
Bruce played to the galleries a little bit in regards to the derby and it ended up coming back to bite him on his quite sizeable derrière. However I fail to see why it's such an issue with the fans that he had picked out some music to celebrate a victory with mind. That to me smacks of people looking for any little thing to have a go at him for really.

 

[Deleted member 361]

Conveniantly missed out 14m of waste on Ferdinand and George McCartney there mind!
Top of head for Bruce.
Mignolet = profit
Bent = Profit
Gyan = Even
Gardener = Waste
Oshea = 4 years good service.
Brown = When fit very good
Whickham = This season will tell
Larsson = free and numerous games
Vaughan = free but poor
Sess = money back
Turner = waste
McLean = profit
Elmo = money back
Ji = waste
Cana = money back

Bruce's record in market a lot better than keanes mind.

Riveros?
Da Silva?
loads more i reckon

 

[Mrjardine]

Riveros?
Da Silva?
loads more i reckon

Freebies or cost next to nothing. Could also have added a few more like that to keanes list too.

 

[Perryqhill]

Apologies didn't respond to last paragraph.
Cisse started ok but he was never really my cup of tea to be honest. Was pleased we never took up our option on him.
Bruce played to the galleries a little bit in regards to the derby and it ended up coming back to bite him on his quite sizeable derrière. However I fail to see why it's such an issue with the fans that he had picked out some music to celebrate a victory with mind. That to me smacks of people looking for any little thing to have a go at him for really.

Cisse was pretty much one dimensional, by the time the end of the season came around he wasn't worth the agreed fee anyway. I found the miss use of him and Malbranque embarrasing by Sbragia, two of few attacking plusses capable of helping get us out of the mess and he either had no idea or didn't want to use them positively.

The music isn't an issue. The issue is that Bruce played up the derbies and the importance, also talked about the song he'd play and then when his side failed to turn up in the derbies he then played down the importance and told everyone who would listen we put too much importance on them and it's the reason he was disliked, which ignored our form over the previous 9 months. It was the same with the 'shopping at Harrods' craic too and talking up things and raising expectations, then backtracking when he failed to reach them.

 

[Mrjardine]

Give over, I've actually give Bruce credit, but pointed out how's and where's, even though I don't like the bloke. All you do is give grudging credit saying Keane got us up and add he done so spending more than McCarthy, then criticise him for overspending ignoring the situation



Not this shite again. Niall Quinn even said at the time although we had money to spend, we probably had it at the wrong time. He said so because we transfer fees were high and we couldn't pay anymore than most other clubs. Unless we can pay more, how do we make ourselves attractive?



We know Keane wasted money, but again you have little regard for what he had to deal with and our starting position. It was a good starting point for Bruce as he had about 20 pro players, 5 or 6 already sold, five or six more half way out of the door and Gordon, Bardsley, Ferdinand, Malbranque, Jones, Richardson, Meyler, Henderson etc already at the club, with money to spend. It meant he had a core in place and could just aim at getting quality. It's not such a hard concept to understand is it?



Very true, for a while we looked exceptional too, but the form didn't even last the season, by the end of January we were a shadow of the side that was playing great football.



But you also can't give Keane any credit without criticising too.

Keane changed the perception of the club and got the pride back. He along with the men providing the money put the spadework in. He was out of his depth in the top level, but got a respectable finish and then started to fail and left before it got too deep.

Bruce oversaw a big slide backwards and his signings set us up for a lull that followed. He then acted like a twat before he left and after in the press. It's not too difficult to understand why some have some positive feelings towards Keane and not too many towards Bruce.

Keanes situation wasn't all that bad. As I've said the situation Reid inherited a decade earlier was bad. Keanes was a picnic in comparison. Money to spend,big crowds,great facilities etc.
Prices were no more inflated then than they are now man. In comparison to other promoted clubs and pretty much every club that finished in bottom half over keanes two full seasons we will have spent the most.(Don't know this as fact but quite prepared to stick neck on line to be proved wrong).
Did Bruce not pretty much do as you suggested though by bringing in the likes of Bent,Cana and cattermole? By finishing 13th and tenth it could be argued that in those two season progress had been made but his base should have been a whole lot stronger given the previous regimes outlay.
The form didn't last 38 games but when has it ever in your time supporting the club? Even under Reid we suffered post Xmas collapses having been flying high. I judge it over a season rather than breaking it down into periods.
Keane done a very good job in getting us promoted. ( think I've said this countless times mind).
How did he put the pride back? We've been in by far more perilous positions than what Keane found in the not too distant past as well. Keano done well in getting us promoted but I never felt for one second that we'd be heading in the opposite direction regardless of who got the job. Not saying I expected us to go up mind but I always felt we'd challenging at top end rather than bottom. We had also won the game prior to Keane taking charge.
Bruce initially took us forward and then admittedly backwards again then like all managers who get the bullet he feels hard done by and states his case for the defence. What I totally understand is his bitterness towards the fans given his last memory here. Wether it was 30 seconds in his last game as some people state (it started against west brom by the way when 2-0 down) having thousands of your own fans chanting fat Geordie bastard at you is going to leave a distinctly unpleasant taste in the mouth. He has only ever really mentioned us when we have been directly linked to him i.e just after he was sacked and when due to play us and this only when asked.

 

[Perryqhill]

Keanes situation wasn't all that bad. As I've said the situation Reid inherited a decade earlier was bad. Keanes was a picnic in comparison. Money to spend,big crowds,great facilities etc.

Keane was lucky to have the money to spend he did, but he inherited a depleated squad where good players weren't willing to join. We were on our arses when Keane arrived and were looked upon as a joke due to the 15 and 19 point seasons. There was more than just performances on the field to turn around.

Prices were no more inflated then than they are now man. In comparison to other promoted clubs and pretty much every club that finished in bottom half over keanes two full seasons we will have spent the most.(Don't know this as fact but quite prepared to stick neck on line to be proved wrong).

Erm prices are more inflated now. However prices at that time were more inflated than they were for many of the following seasons.

Did Bruce not pretty much do as you suggested though by bringing in the likes of Bent,Cana and cattermole? By finishing 13th and tenth it could be argued that in those two season progress had been made but his base should have been a whole lot stronger given the previous regimes outlay.

He started to do it and then messed it up. Unbelievable you suggest his base should have been stronger, yet ignore that Bruce spent money adding to it and by the end he barely had a base. Bruce was lucky to both have money and have a decent sized squad in there to wheel and deal with.

Oh and as for Cana, he was that good that by the end of the season Bruce had replaced him with a Keane signing David Meyler.

The form didn't last 38 games but when has it ever in your time supporting the club? Even under Reid we suffered post Xmas collapses having been flying high. I judge it over a season rather than breaking it down into periods.

Of course you judge the season, but there was a marked difference between the first half and the second, which continued on into the next season just as it did with Reid in 2001. It would be foolish to ignore that when the writing is on the wall.

Keane done a very good job in getting us promoted. ( think I've said this countless times mind).
How did he put the pride back? We've been in by far more perilous positions than what Keane found in the not too distant past as well. Keano done well in getting us promoted but I never felt for one second that we'd be heading in the opposite direction regardless of who got the job. Not saying I expected us to go up mind but I always felt we'd challenging at top end rather than bottom. We had also won the game prior to Keane taking charge.

More perilous positions? I don't think we have unless you're going back to 1987. McCarthy might not have had money to spend but he had the end of one season and a squad of almost 60 players to lose the best from and still have a squad that cost about £20m to build. Keane was announced after five defeats and appeared at the WBA game, which gave some belief and a change in mood. I love it how you're trying to include the WBA as a reason to say how things weren't so bad, when infact the change in mind and belief came totally after the annoncement he was taking over and the fact he was at the game almost certainly had an effect. We were heading only one way before he arrived, with some terrible pre season signings after losing everyone of value.

Bruce initially took us forward and then admittedly backwards again then like all managers who get the bullet he feels hard done by and states his case for the defence. What I totally understand is his bitterness towards the fans given his last memory here. Wether it was 30 seconds in his last game as some people state (it started against west brom by the way when 2-0 down) having thousands of your own fans chanting fat Geordie bastard at you is going to leave a distinctly unpleasant taste in the mouth. He has only ever really mentioned us when we have been directly linked to him i.e just after he was sacked and when due to play us and this only when asked.

Bruce had started the excuses and backtracking before months before he left, it probably heightened the feelings of dislike towards him.

 

[super sleeves]

Malbranque was excellent first season. In his later seasons he kept and moved the ball brilliantly and started many attacks even if he wasn't at the end of them. Funny how you play his worth down, yet suggest the likes of O'Shea and Larsson have gave good service, when much of the time O'Shea has been weak as piss and Larsson garbage.

As for Gordon 'not being a 9 million pound keeper' - do you think Borini is a £14m pound forward or is it just an indication of market forces at each time?

All those were Bosmans barring Angeleri, they're still signings clogging up the wage bill. You do realise in Bruce's first season he doubled the amount we spent on Agent fees (over £5m) and then it increased the season later? These 'free' players aren't always 'free'.

So profit is good, regardless of the cost?



f***ing bollocks and you know it. He moved us on massively and wasted some, then couldnt take us any further. We signed in most cases the only reasonable players who would come. The man who wasted the real chance to move us on when there was a base of players there was Bruce. Bruce had a free reign to move in and out who he wanted and top them off with some big signings. He had a big squad to wheel and deal with and for a while he done well, but wasted a real opportunity to move on.

He knows fuck all mate