Corbyn

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alzeebub said:
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If the oil processing ability is gone, the ability to sell is knocked on the head instantly...meaning you aren't chasing middle men, and smugglers.
Arms sales? How the hell do you stop them, there will always be smugglers and sellers, and there's arms all over Syria and Iraq already anyway
As for political process? How do you negotiate with Isis?

I'm not really in favour of bombing for the sake of it but I'm all for bombing if they can get some group in to kick Isis back to the shit hole they came from. Which means picking a faction and saying you can have Syria afterwards when Isis is gone. Because once Isis is gone everyone of the groups will want their part of Syria and that just isn't viable so pick one and be prepared for them to wipe all the other factions out
 
Randy Ostrich said:
I didn't actually see anything about the post-conflict picture, unless I missed it?


Any response to the point that the Tories' entire strategy is divide and conquer?
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I do not think that is their strategy at all. If anything, they are having success with the electorate because they benefit from a wider consensus on social issues which has partly emerged from people losing patience with Labour's legacy of soft touch social policy.
 
Boz33 said:
If the oil processing ability is gone, the ability to sell is knocked on the head instantly...meaning you aren't chasing middle men, and smugglers.
Arms sales? How the hell do you stop them, there will always be smugglers and sellers, and there's arms all over Syria and Iraq already anyway
As for political process? How do you negotiate with Isis?

I'm not really in favour of bombing for the sake of it but I'm all for bombing if they can get some group in to kick Isis back to the shit hole they came from. Which means picking a faction and saying you can have Syria afterwards when Isis is gone. Because once Isis is gone everyone of the groups will want their part of Syria and that just isn't viable so pick one and be prepared for them to wipe all the other factions out
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I think the Beast of Bolsover is talking the most sense on this subject. Everyone's flying into Syria with different objectives, it's f***ing madness to go in like that.
 
ajthemackem said:
I think the Beast of Bolsover is talking the most sense on this subject. Everyone's flying into Syria with different objectives, it's f***ing madness to go in like that.
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And that's the crux of the problem....it's not the bombing, that will need to happen to get rid of Isis alongside ground troops to mop up

it's the west not supporting one faction to rule the country, which twill need if syria itso be stable
 
Boz33 said:
And that's the crux of the problem....it's not the bombing, that will need to happen to get rid of Isis alongside ground troops to mop up

it's the west not supporting one faction to rule the country, which twill need if syria itso be stable
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We're best off out of it man, said it all along. Anything we do over there is going to leave us wide open to a clusterfuck.
 
Randy Ostrich said:
His side tried to keep the price down knowing the other side would get first dibs on them...
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Erm nope. It means institutional investors generally get first access to share offerings. It's lazy journalism at best and at worst deliberately misleading.

If he is admitting to what you think he is, the fca would ensure he no longer runs a company.
 
monkeytassle said:
Erm nope. It means institutional investors generally get first access to share offerings. It's lazy journalism at best and at worst deliberately misleading.

If he is admitting to what you think he is, the fca would ensure he no longer runs a company.
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Yes, the FCA and FSA have a great record in prosecuting financial impropriety
 
monkeytassle said:
A loss? And who did profit from that?
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It's not even debatable, the way the ConDems sold off Royal mail cost the country millions.

Cable was told at the time he was undervaluing the Royal Mail and that the timing of the sale was wrong but he ignored the voices from the opposition and the City. Those voices were subsequently proved to be correct.
 
Ignoring ISIS is the moral equivalent of ignoring Hitler's aggression in the thirties. Its unthinkable that whilst the rest of the free world seeks unite to blunt their aggression, we turn our backs on them.

ISIS have been absolutely ruined in Iraq and are now starting to lose ground in Syria. Why? Airstrikes assisting ground forces, if there had never been any strikes, the following would have occurred

  • ISIS would have taken Kobani and the entire border to Turkey. A genocide of the kurds would have followed. Only U.S airstrikes backing the Kurds allowed the Kurds to go on the offensive against ISIS and drive them out of large areas of northern Syria.
  • The iraqi army would have been defeated by now and Baghdad would be under attack. ISIS were just 8 miles from Baghdad at their height before airstrikes.
  • Assad would have been defeated now... by ISIS
  • The so called moderates, would have been largely defeated, Airstrikes have halted ISIS offensives against them
  • ISIS's momentum would have continued with nobody in their way and the numbers of recruits would be higher. Only the drain of morale due to the airstrikes has cut their growth, as Obama said "we have contained them".
  • But at least the left would be satisfied.
 
MrOompapa said:
Ignoring ISIS is the moral equivalent of ignoring Hitler's aggression in the thirties. Its unthinkable that whilst the rest of the free world seeks unite to blunt their aggression, we turn our backs on them.

ISIS have been absolutely ruined in Iraq and are now starting to lose ground in Syria. Why? Airstrikes assisting ground forces, if there had never been any strikes, the following would have occurred

  • ISIS would have taken Kobani and the entire border to Turkey. A genocide of the kurds would have followed. Only U.S airstrikes backing the Kurds allowed the Kurds to go on the offensive against ISIS and drive them out of large areas of northern Syria.
  • The iraqi army would have been defeated by now and Baghdad would be under attack. ISIS were just 8 miles from Baghdad at their height before airstrikes.
  • Assad would have been defeated now... by ISIS
  • The so called moderates, would have been largely defeated, Airstrikes have halted ISIS offensives against them
  • ISIS's momentum would have continued with nobody in their way and the numbers of recruits would be higher. Only the drain of morale due to the airstrikes has cut their growth, as Obama said "we have contained them".
  • But at least the left would be satisfied.
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The left don't seem bothered about thousands of innocents getting slaughtered if the west pull out and let factions rampage unchecked

It's easy to look for easy solutions to very complicated problems when the decisions you are making have no chance of coming back and biting you on the arse

Whatever happens unfortunately innocents will be caught up in it and killed. That's the harsh realities of war
 
redandwhiterob said:
The left don't seem bothered about thousands of innocents getting slaughtered if the west pull out and let factions rampage unchecked

It's easy to look for easy solutions to very complicated problems when the decisions you are making have no chance of coming back and biting you on the arse

Whatever happens unfortunately innocents will be caught up in it and killed. That's the harsh realities of war
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Something must be done. This is something. Let's do it.
 
redandwhiterob said:
The left don't seem bothered about thousands of innocents getting slaughtered if the west pull out and let factions rampage unchecked

It's easy to look for easy solutions to very complicated problems when the decisions you are making have no chance of coming back and biting you on the arse

Whatever happens unfortunately innocents will be caught up in it and killed. That's the harsh realities of war
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The "easy decision" is to drop bombs and stand there saying "look at me, look what I'm doing, I'm being strong". While actually achieving fuck all.

Odd that you criticise "the left" about innocents being slaughtered, while still praising the liar Blair for his intervention in Iraq. The same intervention that created a situation where ISIS could flourish.

You want people to take responsibility for the suffering of innocents then you need to take a long hard look at Blair and anyone else who supported his warmongering. The left of the Party opposed him over Iraq and history proved them to be correct. You still haven't learned anything from it.
 
Inkman said:
The "easy decision" is to drop bombs and stand there saying "look at me, look what I'm doing, I'm being strong". While actually achieving fuck all.

Odd that you criticise "the left" about innocents being slaughtered, while still praising the liar Blair for his intervention in Iraq. The same intervention that created a situation where ISIS could flourish.

You want people to take responsibility for the suffering of innocents then you need to take a long hard look at Blair and anyone else who supported his warmongering. The left of the Party opposed him over Iraq and history proved them to be correct. You still haven't learned anything from it.
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Personally I think it's easy to sit back and do fuck all. History has also shown us if we ignore threats and let them flourish we end up going back to take them on at a later date when they are much stronger and confident

I agree it would be better if we had a more well thought out strategy but it must be a absolute nightmare dealing with all the factions within the middle east before you consider nato partners and Russia in the mix now. Although the plan is far from perfect it doesn't mean we should sit back and do nowt. It's sends out a awful message for the future if these fellas can rain terror on the streets of France, Us, Belgium etc and we just fold like a pack of cards as a result cause we are scared of collateral damage on our own streets

Skandhaless said:
Rob , do me favour mate and point me to your last post that is unequivocally critical of the Tories without any reference to Labour .
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The labour party fiasco is fascinating me at the moment marra :lol:
 
Randy Ostrich said:
Yes, the FCA and FSA have a great record in prosecuting financial impropriety
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Ignore facts and make something up eh? You're better than this.

Inkman said:
It's not even debatable, the way the ConDems sold off Royal mail cost the country millions.

Cable was told at the time he was undervaluing the Royal Mail and that the timing of the sale was wrong but he ignored the voices from the opposition and the City. Those voices were subsequently proved to be correct.
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By the City you mean the majority that said explicitly that it was an undervalued float?

You want a name to blame, Vince cable is that person. To suggest it was some mates rates on the sly by Osborne is risible.
 
redandwhiterob said:
Personally I think it's easy to sit back and do fuck all. History has also shown us if we ignore threats and let them flourish we end up going back to take them on at a later date when they are much stronger and confident

I agree it would be better if we had a more well thought out strategy but it must be a absolute nightmare dealing with all the factions within the middle east before you consider nato partners and Russia in the mix now. Although the plan is far from perfect it doesn't mean we should sit back and do nowt. It's sends out a awful message for the future if these fellas can rain terror on the streets of France, Us, Belgium etc and we just fold like a pack of cards as a result cause we are scared of collateral damage on our own streets



The labour party fiasco is fascinating me at the moment marra :lol:
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Just give me a factual answer to my question marra
 
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