WMS Who Owns Sunderland AFC?

[Guinness Guzzler]

The moment we knew the Three Stooges still had a substantial shareholding it should have been clear that KLD was going to invest very little otherwise he would have just taken 100% control.

From what I can see all KLDs money has done is made sure the three of them don't have to repay the parachute payments. It's an absolute disgrace to be fair.

Not sure the parachute payments are still relevant tbh, not if KLD has done his homework. I mean, let's say for arguments sake Donald owed £20m to safc. KLD bought the club, if he knew Donald owed £20m he'd adjust the price accordingly. So, perhaps wrongly, I've assumed that either way that's been accounted for now

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Not sure the parachute payments are still relevant tbh, not if KLD has done his homework. I mean, let's say for arguments sake Donald owed £20m to safc. KLD bought the club, if he knew Donald owed £20m he'd adjust the price accordingly. So, perhaps wrongly, I've assumed that either way that's been accounted for now

Part of it was put back in, and the rest was written off in accounting terms. Anything else is down to whether or not there was a moral obligation on Madrox. In one sense, given that all parties were less than frank about the club really being debt free. it could be looked at as club money used to pay a club debt, albeit in a very roundabout fashion. All of this could have been avoided if some pride was swallowed, and that last £25m left in the club. There are no real winners here.

 

[CissesUnderpants9]

Part of it was put back in, and the rest was written off in accounting terms. Anything else is down to whether or not there was a moral obligation on Madrox. In one sense, given that all parties were less than frank about the club really being debt free. it could be looked at as club money used to pay a club debt, albeit in a very roundabout fashion. All of this could have been avoided if some pride was swallowed, and that last £25m left in the club. There are no real winners here.

what do you expect the club to tell RAWA and the collective tomorow ?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

what do you expect the club to tell RAWA and the collective tomorow ?

About that, nothing. It's pretty much ancient history. I expect them to say that the club is owned by a Liechtenstein company or limited liability partnership called Mercator, whose shareholders are KLD, Sartori, Donald and Methven. Whether they reveal the individual percentage holdings I couldn't say, though I would expect them to say that KLD holds more than 50%.

 

[Deleted member 41188]

I think it’s a very good article to be honest.

I’ve been impressed by the stuff I’ve seen from him.

Hopefully the club will answer the questions raised.

 

[CissesUnderpants9]

About that, nothing. It's pretty much ancient history. I expect them to say that the club is owned by a Liechtenstein company or limited liability partnership called Mercator, whose shareholders are KLD, Sartori, Donald and Methven. Whether they reveal the individual percentage holdings I couldn't say, though I would expect them to say that KLD holds more than 50%.

Well it will be interesting to find out from the mins, what is actually said, but given you are whom you are, and given you have been keeping an eye on the club's books for what 5 years now or longer ?, you will no doubt be correct in not the same words, however its good that Chris has decided to publish this gives people who haven't really paying attention the chance to read it.

 

[Zak's Dad]

In answer to the subject, I havent a f***ing clue. So I read with interest, all of the answers of those posters with a better understanding of the matter and hey presto, I still haven’t got a f***ing clue

Thanks mate. I'm not alone then.

I'm wading through this myself and I haven't got a clue. Hopefully when I get to the end of the thread I'll have grasped some of it.

Not me if this helps.

Yes it does mate, it helps me. I can totally understand your post.

Oi!

@Confucius

Is this helping mate?

 

[1879]

It was bad enough when Donald did his first disappearing act, around the time the Daily Mail article came out which showed what he was up to, and he organised an internet pile-on of Chris Wetherspoon for asking the right questions.

It was fairly sickening to watch SAFC fans believe everything Donald said and launch into Chris Wetherspoon with tirades of online abuse.

And to see some of the same people who previously stuck up for everything that Donald did, and launch into personal attacks, now on this thread trying to have a go at him for asking really fundamental, really basic questions that could and should have been answered months ago, is beyond belief tbh.

He is right to ask these questions. We are all entitled to answers on the questions he is raising. Given the history of some of the people still apparently involved in the club, though we don't know on what basis, he is right to raise these in advance of the meeting to put pressure on to get a proper answer, not just a fobbing off of people who will be bought off with a pint in the Hilton before they move onto the size of the shelves in the concourse or the availability of craft ales.

Nail on the head for me like. I don’t know and have never met the lad, but fair play to him for putting his head above the parapet and asking the right questions.

There may be nothing in this, but you’d think some of our supporters would have learnt having endured the Ellis Short and the Donald / Methven years. Which is why we find ourselves 4 (possibly 5+) years in the 3rd f***ing tier.

 

[CissesUnderpants9]

Nail on the head for me like. I don’t know and have never met the lad, but fair play to him for putting his head above the parapet and asking the right questions.

There may be nothing in this, but you’d think some of our supporters would have learnt having endured the Ellis Short and the Donald / Methven years. Which is why we find ourselves 4 (possibly 5+) years in the 3rd f***ing tier.

Yeah, some of them didn't want to hear it at the time, it took one relegation, and then in some cases another, before they were ready to listen, however that's the past, and it's fans like Chris, and those who work within RAWA, and the collective, keep the club honest, these days, however, much some claimed when the statement came out, they don't speak for me, my question at the time was, who does.

 

[1879]

Yeah, some of them didn't want to hear it at the time, it took one relegation, and then in some cases another, before they were ready to listen, however that's the past, and it's fans like Chris, and those who work within RAWA, and the collective, keep the club honest, these days, however, much some claimed when the statement came out, they don't speak for me, my question at the time was, who does.

Spot on, and I appreciate the time and effort everyone involved with RAWA puts in to keep the club as honest as they can.

Let’s hope the questions raised in the article gets asked and answered by the club with a straight bat.

 

[CissesUnderpants9]

Spot on, and I appreciate the time and effort everyone involved with RAWA puts in to keep the club as honest as they can.

Let’s hope the questions raised in the article gets asked and answered by the club with a straight bat.

personally from my own point of view it, will prove the club has nothing to hide, they claim they want open and honest discord, if that's the case, and i am sure it is, its a simple question to answer, we will find out when the RAWA meeting mins come out.

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

Not sure the parachute payments are still relevant tbh, not if KLD has done his homework. I mean, let's say for arguments sake Donald owed £20m to safc. KLD bought the club, if he knew Donald owed £20m he'd adjust the price accordingly. So, perhaps wrongly, I've assumed that either way that's been accounted for now

Stewart donald still owns a stake in the club, albeit a minor one. It absolutely should still be relevant.

 

[0321safc]

Stewart donald still owns a stake in the club, albeit a minor one. It absolutely should still be relevant.

I’m convinced it’s still him and Methven calling the shots. KLD the young and naive figurehead making us think things have fundamentally changed when I’m actual fact fuck all has changed. The club is amateurish from too to bottom.

 

[Haswell Makem]

I ain’t saying this isn’t important but if we were 20 points clear at the top no one would give a shite.

Short term I would agree with you, but medium and long term, if the same cowboys still have a largish stake in the club them our sustainability in the future would be questionable (where would investment come from for a championship or premiership campaign). Hopefully this will be answered tomorrow unless we get even more smoke and mirrors.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

Stewart donald still owns a stake in the club, albeit a minor one. It absolutely should still be relevant.

Aye but surely the buying price will have taken that into account? I mean, if I was going to buy a club that had £20m in the bank (made up figures obviously), I'd pay more for it than I would for one with £0 in the bank because I'd have to fund the latter more myself. So I'm assuming someone as professional as KLD will have known how much should be coming in and will have adjusted the price accordingly if it isn't going to. If he's done that, then it's been taken care of. For me it was a major issue until a sale, now I think we need to focus on other aspects of the new ownership such as their ambitions and targets

 

[North Yorks Mackem]

Aye but surely the buying price will have taken that into account? I mean, if I was going to buy a club that had £20m in the bank (made up figures obviously), I'd pay more for it than I would for one with £0 in the bank because I'd have to fund the latter more myself. So I'm assuming someone as professional as KLD will have known how much should be coming in and will have adjusted the price accordingly if it isn't going to. If he's done that, then it's been taken care of. For me it was a major issue until a sale, now I think we need to focus on other aspects of the new ownership such as their ambitions and targets

I'm not too sure i am comfortable about forgetting about a sum of money that is bigger than our yearly turnover so easily mate. Particularly when we're in our 4th season in league 1 and looking far from certain of going up this year. And like I say particularly when said individual retains a stake in the club.

And I'm not sure how it would be factored into any selling price when they removed the obligation to repay it. It stinks beyond belief. And it stinks even more he still has a stake in the club.

 

[Mallard]

Short term I would agree with you, but medium and long term, if the same cowboys still have a largish stake in the club them our sustainability in the future would be questionable (where would investment come from for a championship or premiership campaign). Hopefully this will be answered tomorrow unless we get even more smoke and mirrors.

I dont really disagree with you, but the urgency of the answer is due to a photo of methven in South America wearing club gear in the middle of a very bad run. I get it and I ain’t his biggest fan but Donald absence is deafening, who I am more critical of.
My point is that i think a series of unfortunate events have made it more prominent than it is. It felt like arguing with a lass and she says “oh and another thing….”
I would imagine this question would have been swept under the carpet if things went well and for as long as they are going well, which isn’t great in it self.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

I'm not too sure i am comfortable about forgetting about a sum of money that is bigger than our yearly turnover so easily mate. Particularly when we're in our 4th season in league 1 and looking far from certain of going up this year. And like I say particularly when said individual retains a stake in the club.

And I'm not sure how it would be factored into any selling price when they removed the obligation to repay it. It stinks beyond belief. And it stinks even more he still has a stake in the club.

I'm sure KLD will have accounted for it. Donald needed to sell a lot more than KLD needed to buy. If Donald couldn't even get us out of this league he was going to lose a fuck load of money, it was pretty much a buyer's market. I'll be much happier when he's gone but I just feel we could end up getting bogged down by the parachute payment thing again when there's other things to focus on. The money should either have come back in, or kld should have accounted for it in the purchase price. Main thing for me now is hearing more from kld about what his ambitions for the club actually are, and what short term goals he's set to go alongside the long term plan. We need to aggressively get out of this league, and yet we seem to be ambling towards another likely play off. January window approaching we need to see something

 

[Red and white TID]

he tends to put the most negative possible spin on everything...and be right some of the time.

He was right about the two blaggers that used to own our club, that’s for certain.

 

[aupaalaves]

There's a lot of bollocks in that long blog post and as far as I'm concerned is only trying to cause a shit storm.

The club is probably in a healthier place both on and off the pitch now since we've been in league one and probably the season before that as well.

Fans need to stop looking for things to have a pop at and instead just get behind the players, coach and the staff for the rest of the season and hope we achieve promotion.

There needs to be unity not division