Wednesday v United

[Wise Man Says]

SWFC have hardly touched the Leppings Lane end because, although it would be a great PR exercise, the business case (return on investment) is terrible.
The only way it becomes a reasonable proposition is if Wednesday became an established PL club, then they could allocate half of it to home fans.

Logistics show that it's much easier to allocate away fans to the Leppings Lane end behind the goal. That stand holds 6K and is rarely even half full.
So it makes no sense to build a brand new large stand with the same 6K capacity, give those swish facilities to benefit away fans which will almost always be massively under capacity.

Wednesday have been unlucky regards stadium improvements.

In the 80's almost every club had some part of their ground that was really poor....so certain stadium improvements/ expansion was deemed as urgent and a no brainer.
Then there was the Taylor report that ensured that once stadia was made all seater capacity was severely reduced.
So clubs like Sunderland and Derby had little choice but to move to a totally new stadium due to the capacity being too small, not fit for purpose.

At Hillsboro there's never been any urgency to improve anything.
The standing capacity was 50K, so with the Taylor report was reduced to a perfectly adequate 39K.
Also all 4 sides of Hillsboro are decent so again no urgency to upgrade, however over the decades many clubs have caught up and overtake Hillsboro.

Another factor is the location of their stadium and the increase in road traffic.
Even with just a 25K the traffic jams are terrible travelling to/ from Hillsboro where as a 25K crowd at Bramall Lane the cars can disperse much easier.

The Wednesday fans would like to see some stadium improvements/ modernisation but there's no communication from the owner.
Some of their fans think the owner's ultimate aim is to move away and build a new stadium.
There's been several discussions on Owls Talk regards whether a move would be good or bad.
Some old'uns insist "if we ever leave Hillsboro that's me done...I've never go to a home game again".

As Sunderland fans you'll be able to speak from experience regards the feeling you had moving from Roker Park to the SOL.

Sunderland leaving Roker was sad but one of the best things we did. We got a completely revamped stadium, which was exciting and coincided with a few years of good times on the pitch. People were genuinely proud of the place and we extended and filled it.

The moral of the story though is that stadiums need TLC (like most things in life). The SOL has been allowed to stagnate and is showing its age already. Same with stadiums like Old Trafford. If you don’t invest, things deteriorate.

 

[AC Mack]

To be honest the vast majority of SU and SW fans never come together in anything and always look for one upmanship.

Wednesday fans are rightly proud of their stadium, in the 70's it was known as "The Wembley of the North".
So United fans saw an opportunity to criticise their stadium and jokingly refer to it as a death trap and highlight that they have no class because Leppings Lane is still there.
Apart from concreting in the tunnel and putting seats on the terracing it's hardly changed since the 1989 disaster.
In fact their stadium has hardly changed since the 80's, it's still one of the classic stadiums but it's showing it's age so United fans refer to it as "the rust bucket".

Regards the disaster. Initially there was obviously a lot of sympathy towards the deceased and Sheffield felt the shock
but over the decades this has changed due to the one sided and constant mud slinging in the media around the name "Hillsborough".

During the 70's and 80's fans were treat like scum (it was normal), thats because some at every club acted like scum.
My mother in law was a landlady quite close to the ground and she told me that there were loads of Liverpool fans in her pub saying they didn't have tickets
and jokingly saying they might need to climb over the fence to get in. However in them days it wasn't unusual to go to matches without tickets.
She was never interviewed by anyone.

In the early days football fans were an easy target, so it was so easy to lay 100% blame on the Liverpool fans. However the facts show the police were lying and making up evidence so politically due to the sensitive nature of the disaster they've under pressure changed the blame towards the Liverpool fans from 100% down to 0%.

I've even seen media reports that say that very few Liverpool fans were drunk on the day of the match, so that wasn't a factor.
This makes no sense because even now (never mind in the 80's) almost everyone turns up to big matches very drunk.
I've spoken to Sheffielder's who were in the area who said many Liverpool fans were drunk and disorderly, but as I said this was normal and expected.

The truth regards blame lies somewhere in between but it's an almost impossible job and so insensitive to even attempt to identify what role Liverpool fans played in the disaster.
I'm sure if a detective found incriminating evidence towards the Liverpool fans then they'd be ordered to destroy it because it's more hassle than it's worth.
So when Liverpool fans demand the truth, it's a one sided selective truth. As I said it's a no win situation and I'm sure if I was saying this on a Liverpool forum I'd receive incredible abuse and be accused of lying and/ or being insensitive. It's a difficult subject to discuss when so many have died, so it's much easier to say the police were 100% at fault.

My view is that there were several factors that caused the disaster (a shared responsibility) but ultimately the police are in control and are ultimately responsible.
However the real blame for the deaths are the millions of fans (hooligans) poor behaviour during the 70's and 80's that meant fences were made compulsory.
With out fences there would have been no deaths.

Anyhow the constant annual media attention and negative connutations towards the Hillsboro disaster means there's always a grey cloud over that club.
I've often thought that SW need to re-name Hillsborough, totally knock down Leppings Lane and rebuild a new stand or move to a totally new stadium.

You jokingly refer to Hillsborough as a 'death trap' whilst highlighting that Sheffield Wednesday have no class?

That's some warped logic.

 

[oriss]

15 years at Bass

I thought the above must be wrong because Sheff Wed don't have anywhere near the support that Sunderland have.
Surely historically it's much close to Sheff United historical average.

However I've checked and your info is correct, just shows that statistics can almost prove anything.

Sunderland historical average 25.8K, SWFC 21.4K, SUFC 19.3K
So the Sheff United average is only 2K below Wednesday where as Wednesdays average is 4.4K behind Sunderland.

Strange but true fact

Ih the last 54 years with Hillsboro holding over 50K guess how many time SW have averaged over 30K

Sunderland 23 times
Sheff United 3 times
Sheff Wednesday zero times

So most people in living memory have seen the odd big crowd at Hillsboro but there's not many people alive that have seen regular big crowds at Hillsboro.
Wednesdays claim to fame is more about potential, they get brilliant support (far better than United) for one-off games, so it shows what's possible.

Even last seasons United averaged 27,611 in the Championship.The last time Wednesday beat that level of support whilst outside the top flight was 1952-53 season.
....that's 71 years ago when admittedly in the early 50's the SW support was brillant (40K to 43K).

As a Boro fan I find these starts interesting, most black cats fans go on as if Boro are a tiny club not much bigger than the pools. Yet they freely admit both Sheff clubs are of a decent size. Well Boro are the 16th best supported club with just shy of 20k with 7 plus 30k averaged in that time, not far of 10 with 3 29k crowds too. So what is it boys Pool size or big like the sheff clubs. I suspect most of you will make div's of yourselves and still insist it's pools.

 

[blade01]

Liverpool barely play Wednesday anymore, but I expect there’d be a lot of hostility if they ever did again.

Agree, it would be a weird atmosphere, a lot of latent deep rooted emotion.
Liverpool fans feeling quite emotional and angry and Wednesday fans feeling a little guilty but not knowing why.

It would be on Sky and there would be loads of negative media attention towards their stadium and the police, so by association it's negativity towards SWFC.
The negativity would make some Wednesday fans feel angry towards LFC but again not fully understand why.

All fans tend to be quite selfish and protective towards their club.
I think in the first 20 years they agreed and supported the tributes....but now there's a tendency to think "when will this ever end"

It's a tricky one because obviously there's a natural feeling to be sensitive and supportive towards LFC
but should the disaster anniversary be a local issue or remain a national issue with significant media attention.

There was the Bradford City fire disaster around the same time with many deaths
but because it's little old Bradford that doesn't receive even the smallest amount of media attention nationally.

You jokingly refer to Hillsborough as a 'death trap' whilst highlighting that Sheffield Wednesday have no class?

That's some warped logic.

I never use those words, I'm too old to make silly jokey comments.
It's what some of our fans regularly say over the years on our forum, partly in jest, to get one over the enemy.

Hillsboro used to be a great stadium, one of the best in England, we've gradually caught up but to stamp home the advantage some of our fans revel in calling Hillsborough a death trap or rust bucket (after the Sheffield floods as their ground is next to a river and their pitch was totally submerged under water).

It's juvenile I know....juvenile insults rarely involve class but it's part of football culture.

 

[wednesday1957]

Wednesday have played Liverpool a fair few times since '89, we were only out of the prem for one year between '89 and 2000
first match back was an awful atmosphere, bottom of the Lepp covered in flowers and a minutes silence broken by an anguished yell from the Scouse end..i'll never forget it.
to be fair to Liverpool fans, there were a fair few took the time to go around the terraced houses that surround the ground to thank residents who brought them cups of tea and had let them use the phones to phone home during the tragedy...
One scouser told me that me he was on Vere rd, looking for a mate, an old lass came out of the house, who had obviously watched it unfold on the telly and shouted at him .
"Oy lad..get in here and phone yer mam!!"
As for ticketless fans/...any fan of any club of any size has taken that punt..I know i have...If I saw a gate open, would I go for it?...well theres a question.
Are scousers blameless?..are any of us who trekked away in those days blameless?
Be honest, loads of fans caused trouble, the trouble brought the fences, the fences caused the tragedy, you can go round and round
Was Hillsborough fit for purpose with those ridiculous cages that ran vertically down each side of that tunnel?..Was it bllx
A Wednesday fan would have dodged right or left to enter at either side. cos he would know the layout, from the turnstile, you look up that tunnel and can see the pitch, wheres an away fan going to head?..straight up that tunnel into that carnage.
Ive been to liverpool before and since, how friendly is that place??....Scousers with a sense of humour who like to chat football?..No it isn't...It can be very hairy, for any travelling supporter.
The police changed statements The Sun made crap up, MP's like Patnick condemned liverpool fans without the evidence, and some Owls fans were happy enough to accept it, some still do...I don't