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VARguments
- Thread starter bernardbresslaw
- Start date
D
Deleted member 6694
Guest
All this suggestion of being daylight, a foot leeway either way etc etc is going to solve fuck all. What if it's 1mm from being daylight or not or 1 foot 1mm leeway?
The linesman have been told not to flag offside unless they're 100% certain. How many times this season has a linesman flagged offside but the player has been miles quite a bit onside like has happened many times in previous seasons? I don't think there's been as many this season. Missing close offside decisions that don't lead to a goal isn't normally a major fuckup if play continues. So this is why you see very few 'close' offsides called by the linesman (with no VAR) if there's no goal and everyone just gets on with it. That's because the linesman is giving more advantage to the attacker by trying to guess when which of the many moving players are exactly where at the precise moment the ball (which is normally a different point of view) is kicked.
This is why VAR is ruling them out to the mm as the linesman who may have flagged offside previously (normally by guessing given how f***ing hard it is to call), now doesn't flag as often as he did and call offside when in fact it was onside.
Saying that, what the fuck the linesman was playing at here is baffling! It's as if Maguire didn't exist
It's still shit how it's implemented as the VAR fella is picking a point where he thinks is the furthest position of the player. I've seen them do this incorrectly and this can mean the line moves between onside and offside. Also as 1 frame of video is 0.03 seconds and as I've said previously this could mean a player moves anywhere from a few cm to 20cm in that frame, especially if the defender is moving against the attacker's direction. Moght as well just have a coin toss when it's that close as the VAR ref could quite easily choose 1 frame and then pick a pixel on the screen to draw the lines which then changes the offside line. In fact, I'm sure they did that earlier this season as they showed the VAR showing the player onside but then they picked another starting pixrl point, drew the lines again and made him offside (or vice versa)
The linesman have been told not to flag offside unless they're 100% certain. How many times this season has a linesman flagged offside but the player has been miles quite a bit onside like has happened many times in previous seasons? I don't think there's been as many this season. Missing close offside decisions that don't lead to a goal isn't normally a major fuckup if play continues. So this is why you see very few 'close' offsides called by the linesman (with no VAR) if there's no goal and everyone just gets on with it. That's because the linesman is giving more advantage to the attacker by trying to guess when which of the many moving players are exactly where at the precise moment the ball (which is normally a different point of view) is kicked.
This is why VAR is ruling them out to the mm as the linesman who may have flagged offside previously (normally by guessing given how f***ing hard it is to call), now doesn't flag as often as he did and call offside when in fact it was onside.
Saying that, what the fuck the linesman was playing at here is baffling! It's as if Maguire didn't exist
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It's still shit how it's implemented as the VAR fella is picking a point where he thinks is the furthest position of the player. I've seen them do this incorrectly and this can mean the line moves between onside and offside. Also as 1 frame of video is 0.03 seconds and as I've said previously this could mean a player moves anywhere from a few cm to 20cm in that frame, especially if the defender is moving against the attacker's direction. Moght as well just have a coin toss when it's that close as the VAR ref could quite easily choose 1 frame and then pick a pixel on the screen to draw the lines which then changes the offside line. In fact, I'm sure they did that earlier this season as they showed the VAR showing the player onside but then they picked another starting pixrl point, drew the lines again and made him offside (or vice versa)
It's the moment the passing player touches the ball to make the pass, not when it leaves them. The cameras are all in sync so they just go back and forward to find the frame that shows before the touch and then move to the one that is touching. However this still isn't perfect as mentioned above given in that 1 frame, players can move far more than the small distance they are using to call offside!
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safcforever
Striker
Let’s just scrap offside altogether
AC Mack
Striker
Okay, but by that method if you're between 1mm and 1mm short of a foot offside, you're going to be given as onside. Which is simply the wrong decision, and you're advocating the wrong decision sometimes being made.
It's not like in cricket where you can justify the decision by saying some of the ball would have hit/missed the stumps.
So again, you're knowingly getting some decisions wrong. Which is just a bit bonkers if you ask me.
All this suggestion of being daylight, a foot leeway either way etc etc is going to solve fuck all. What if it's 1mm from being daylight or not or 1 foot 1mm leeway?
The linesman have been told not to flag offside unless they're 100% certain. How many times this season has a linesman flagged offside but the player has been miles quite a bit onside like has happened many times in previous seasons? I don't think there's been as many this season. Missing close offside decisions that don't lead to a goal isn't normally a major fuckup if play continues. So this is why you see very few 'close' offsides called by the linesman (with no VAR) if there's no goal and everyone just gets on with it. That's because the linesman is giving more advantage to the attacker by trying to guess when which of the many moving players are exactly where at the precise moment the ball (which is normally a different point of view) is kicked.
This is why VAR is ruling them out to the mm as the linesman who may have flagged offside previously (normally by guessing given how f***ing hard it is to call), now doesn't flag as often as he did and call offside when in fact it was onside.
Saying that, what the fuck the linesman was playing at here is baffling! It's as if Maguire didn't exist
You must be logged on to see media items
It's still shit how it's implemented as the VAR fella is picking a point where he thinks is the furthest position of the player. I've seen them do this incorrectly and this can mean the line moves between onside and offside. Also as 1 frame of video is 0.03 seconds and as I've said previously this could mean a player moves anywhere from a few cm to 20cm in that frame, especially if the defender is moving against the attacker's direction. Moght as well just have a coin toss when it's that close as the VAR ref could quite easily choose 1 frame and then pick a pixel on the screen to draw the lines which then changes the offside line. In fact, I'm sure they did that earlier this season as they showed the VAR showing the player onside but then they picked another starting pixrl point, drew the lines again and made him offside (or vice versa)
It's the moment the passing player touches the ball to make the pass, not when it leaves them. The cameras are all in sync so they just go back and forward to find the frame that shows before the touch and then move to the one that is touching. However this still isn't perfect as mentioned above given in that 1 frame, players can move far more than the small distance they are using to call offside!
Spot on as usual mate.
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TravellingMackem
Winger
You don’t get them wrong though as you don’t know whether they are wrong. You cannot prove the onfield decision is wrong therefore you stick with the onfield decision. It’s about letting the linesman referee the game and correcting howlers, not correcting every single thing
AC Mack
Striker
We're talking about a foot, of course you can tell!
TravellingMackem
Winger
It isn’t whether you can tell it’s about whether you can prove it. Just because he’s say 8 inches offside in a random freeze frame doesn’t mean he’s actually offside. How do you know you’ve paused it in the right place? Have you factored for parallax and distortion and foreshortening? That’s the exact problem.
johnny69
Midfield
Just keep goalline technology and then let someone just talk to the ref if he’s made a howler or missed a huge issue in the game via a microphone. Crowd dont even need to know. However we are in the hands of the corporate greed machine and maybe the next generation coming through will love all this technology and ruling things in or out by thousandths of millimetres because it’s technically correct.
Vicham
Midfield
Except that you still don't know that VAR is making the correct decision. To me, by supporting VAR, you are supporting the risk of incorrect decisions while at the same time saying that decisions need to be precise. 1mm offside is not necessarily 1mm offside when you are using a flawed tool.
AC Mack
Striker
But you're going to have the same arguments - wherever you draw the line, you're still going to have to measure based on that line. The same problems exist, you've just shifted them along a bit.
I know all this, I'm the biggest VAR critic going and have been for several years with regards technology.
My point is, all these different arguments that could be implemented are simply shifting the goalposts, not solving the problem.
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How about we just revert to "the referee is always right" as the poster on here used to say.
It's the twats on the telly with their slow mo, contact, entitled to go down, unnatural position blah blah blah that started all this now they're crying about it
It's the twats on the telly with their slow mo, contact, entitled to go down, unnatural position blah blah blah that started all this now they're crying about it
Vicham
Midfield
Not necessarily true. If you make a, let's say 20 cm margin of error, that would possibly mean a number of positives.
We know that the FPS causes the offside lines to be inaccurate. A margin of error would bring the benefit of the doubt to the striker.
Decisions within the first 10-15 cms would be easy to call and in that sense be the same as being 10-15 cms onside with the current calls, so no changes there, which means there are only the close calls really in question, which they already are.
Except that we are only talking about margin of error for VAR decisions. This does not go for the linesman who is still to wave the flag if he is certain the striker is offside. And that could very well lead to less VAR calls in total. And possibly even reinstall some trust in the linesman and refs.
AC Mack
Striker
And who decides whether it's 19.9cm or 20.01cm?
Here's a wacky idea: scrap technology, let the referee make the call and just accept that they will get some things wrong.
Ramona1234
Central Defender
Offside should be based on position of the feet next season . It’s a bloody joke . Some forwards are being penalised for their speed of thought and sharpness to project forwards.
Vicham
Midfield
If VAR can draw a line showing that a player is 1mm offside, then surely can make a line showing that the player is 20.1 cm offside
zinedine
Striker
It should only be used for those did the ball cross the line, was it a goal or not moments. Everything else left to the match officials.
Players are being found offside because their shoelace was too far forward. Offside is part of the game to stop what we used to call, when i was a kid, goal lagging. To stop a player hanging behind the defenders for a ball over the top. Millimetres was never really part of it.
I don't think it should be used for offside at all.
Players are being found offside because their shoelace was too far forward. Offside is part of the game to stop what we used to call, when i was a kid, goal lagging. To stop a player hanging behind the defenders for a ball over the top. Millimetres was never really part of it.
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