VAR has ruined top level football.

[lucky]

My heads battered, can someone explain the offside rule to me (actually please dont )

 

[dangermows]

when you are down to analyzing single frames in tenths of seconds, its not a clear and obvious error in my opinion

Referee decisions are where the clear and obvious error comes in.

That's not the case with offsides and its never been used that way. It's either on or off.

We saw that in the semi final.

The ref awarded Coventry a faiely harsh penalty. VAR looked and decided it was a clear and obvious error so didn't ask the referee to have another look.

With the offside there was no decision made. The officials simply let the move play out and then VAR checked if he was onside afterwards (bit like cricket where with any wicket they will then check for a no ball).

 

[redandwhiterob]

Yes, they seem to but I don’t think that’s the way they should be working.

So, attacker receives the ball in an offside position and carries it forward but keeper comes out of his goal and intercepts but boots the ball straight to an oppo player who puts it in the net. It’s now (presumably) a separate passage of play once the keeper has cleared it so the defending team is still a goal down from an unfair offside advantage instead of having a free kick to properly clear their lines.

When does it become a separate passage of play and the previous offside doesn’t count?

If it’s blatantly offside the game should be stopped for the free kick there and then but that isn’t happening, it’s another way VAR is confusing things by allowing play to go on after an obvious offence.

If the linesman thinks the player is offside doesn't he flag once that phase of play is over?

 

[viccarlton]

Don’t get your point? That game was spoiled granted but it didn’t stop you celebrating Ross Stewart’s goal at Wembley whilst you thought in the back of your mine is there a VAR…. The joy of the moment.

Why would there have been a VAR for Ross Stewart’s goal

 

[FC United of Manchester]

If the linesman thinks the player is offside doesn't he flag once that phase of play is over?

Dunno mate, I’m confused by it all

 

[Chewit]

Why would there have been a VAR for Ross Stewart’s goal

What I was saying is when that goal went in you didn’t have to think to yourself will VAR find an infringement somewhere.
If the referee indicated it was a goal you could drink in the moment of joy.
Referee awards a goal in the prem it means little now as there is a bank of people and monitors trying to find fault in the goal

 

[viccarlton]

What I was saying is when that goal went in you didn’t have to think to yourself will VAR find an infringement somewhere.
If the referee indicated it was a goal you could drink in the moment of joy.
Referee awards a goal in the prem it means little now as there is a bank of people and monitors trying to find fault in the goal

Fairy Nuff

 

[HellsBells]

Surprised this thread hasn’t been bumped after the VAR audio for the Spurs Chelsea match has been all over twitter. It’s utterly shambolic.

For me, the most interesting part is how they draw the lines and select which frame to use. It’s just subjective. for decisions this close (and the Coventry one) it’s just bonkers.

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They waited 8 minutes for this decision.

 

[molthemackem]

Thankfully, This week , Sweden have voted not to adopt VAR after watching and analysing the effect it has had on the game in the UK and Europe. A chink of light for common sense in morass or differing expert opinions. Hopefully, time will tell and see, just how it is destroying the game ,not just in this country but across the whole game, to satisfy a few top clubs.

 

[Matnab]

Surprised this thread hasn’t been bumped after the VAR audio for the Spurs Chelsea match has been all over twitter. It’s utterly shambolic.

For me, the most interesting part is how they draw the lines and select which frame to use. It’s just subjective. for decisions this close (and the Coventry one) it’s just bonkers.

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They waited 8 minutes for this decision.

Anybody thinking they could do a job on this quickly while sounding composed and reaching a verdict that everyone is happy with is completely kidding themselves.

 

[ThreadBumper]

Coventry have moved on.

We've accepted the decision and that we lost. It's almost a week ago and we've lost a more important game since that has killed any chance of playoff football.

Had that VAR call happened in the 65th minute, there wouldn't be the outrage that is being shown across football.
Had Wright overrun the cross and it had gone for a goalkick, noone would even be questioning it.

It's only that it was the final minute of extra time in a very entertaining semi-final that made it so dramatic.


VAR has far overstretched from its original concept of clear and obvious. Using technology to measure a players inside leg measurements or whether the ball is 0.001mm over the line is sanitising the game to extremes. By making the jobs of the on-pitch referees easier, they have both made it harder and have torn out the key element of football, the human element.

Swedish football have the right idea, to refuse to implement it.

EPL and FA won't, there's too much prize money involved.

 

[HellsBells]

Coventry have moved on.

We've accepted the decision and that we lost. It's almost a week ago and we've lost a more important game since that has killed any chance of playoff football.

Had that VAR call happened in the 65th minute, there wouldn't be the outrage that is being shown across football.
Had Wright overrun the cross and it had gone for a goalkick, noone would even be questioning it.

It's only that it was the final minute of extra time in a very entertaining semi-final that made it so dramatic.


VAR has far overstretched from its original concept of clear and obvious. Using technology to measure a players inside leg measurements or whether the ball is 0.001mm over the line is sanitising the game to extremes. By making the jobs of the on-pitch referees easier, they have both made it harder and have torn out the key element of football, the human element.

Swedish football have the right idea, to refuse to implement it.

EPL and FA won't, there's too much prize money involved.

I know, my other half is quite accepting about it.

If it was us, we’d still be angry about it 27 years later man. You lot need to learn how to hold a grudge. .

 

[zebediah]

Coventry have moved on.

I work with a Coventry fan, he has banged on about it every single day (including yesterday).
He keeps showing people pictures from peoples phones in the crowd.
Last Tuesday he was moving the video frame by frame claiming VAR stopped the action a frame too late

They waited 8 minutes for this decision.

It is the incompetence of the officials not the technology.
If a ref gives an incorrect red card to a player it's not the cards fault.
The tech is in its infancy and being used incorrectly by gormless chimps.

 

[ThreadBumper]

I work with a Coventry fan, he has banged on about it every single day (including yesterday).
He keeps showing people pictures from peoples phones in the crowd.
Last Tuesday he was moving the video frame by frame claiming VAR stopped the action a frame too late

I can point to many posts on the Cov forum by one poster about that VAR decision and how we should challenge it as far as we can. And multiple posts from other posters telling him to give it a rest.

You are saying one red Opal Fruit in a pack makes the whole pack red opal fruits.

That was then. We are now more upset by our loss on Wednesday to Hull that killed our playoffs hopes.

 

[Fleagle]

The grey area could be when the ball is actually kicked , I millisecond out either way can make a big difference

A millisecond is 1cm if you’re an Olympic 100m runner at full speed. It’s not that big a difference.

A grey area could be where the lines are drawn from , apparently the line used on Sunday actually went over the top of Wan Bissakas foot not from the tip of it, again could make all the difference.

That’s probably a bigger one. Humans doing it by eye is slow and inaccurate. Although both of those are resolved by the semi automatic stuff.

I said to my mates ages ago that getting promoted would be fantastic for the finances but I'd rather stay in the championship where there's no VAR

The way it is in the Prem, I’d agree.

 

[ThreadBumper]

That’s probably a bigger one. Humans doing it by eye is slow and inaccurate. Although both of those are resolved by the semi automatic stuff.

The automated version is more of a worry than the current system.

If you've seen the video posted above from the Spurs/Chelsea game, they had to change their minds a few times on whether a players foot or back was further forward. And what constituted a players shoulder.

Even with todays technology, how can this system identify from a 2D image, what is a players back and not his opposite arm (to the camera) ? Or how far out a players arse is compared to his shoulderblades ?

Would love to see the tests of this system, if only to ease my own mind.

 

[safcforever]

If var wasn't it and the Coventry goal was given even though it was offside people would be going absolutely spare about it

They won’t, because for some reason the dream is better than facts.

I remember united of Manchester having a good cup run. People were desperate for the to make it through to the 3rd round and draw Man Utd. To the point their striker fouled the keeper (and it was a clear foul) and scored. People were defending it saying it’s better for the game that UofM went through anyway….. such a strange attitude to have

Surprised this thread hasn’t been bumped after the VAR audio for the Spurs Chelsea match has been all over twitter. It’s utterly shambolic.

For me, the most interesting part is how they draw the lines and select which frame to use. It’s just subjective. for decisions this close (and the Coventry one) it’s just bonkers.

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They waited 8 minutes for this decision.

8 minutes of standing around isn’t good for an athlete. I know it’s only 8 minutes but at that level it really is fine margins.

I’d love to see the science around this and injuries


Ffs, I only come back to this thread to say I’m now 100% in the get rid of VAR camp

 

[molthemackem]

Coventry have moved on.

We've accepted the decision and that we lost. It's almost a week ago and we've lost a more important game since that has killed any chance of playoff football.

Had that VAR call happened in the 65th minute, there wouldn't be the outrage that is being shown across football.
Had Wright overrun the cross and it had gone for a goalkick, noone would even be questioning it.

It's only that it was the final minute of extra time in a very entertaining semi-final that made it so dramatic.


VAR has far overstretched from its original concept of clear and obvious. Using technology to measure a players inside leg measurements or whether the ball is 0.001mm over the line is sanitising the game to extremes. By making the jobs of the on-pitch referees easier, they have both made it harder and have torn out the key element of football, the human element.

Swedish football have the right idea, to refuse to implement it.

EPL and FA won't, there's too much prize money involved.

for me mate, it was on side and a perfectly executed goal....football is not and never will be like Athletics or Motor Racing whereby split 100th's of seconds or 10th's of a millimetres are what differentiate between success and failure. Mind, O'Hares penalty was shit.

 

[Fleagle]

The automated version is more of a worry than the current system.

If you've seen the video posted above from the Spurs/Chelsea game, they had to change their minds a few times on whether a players foot or back was further forward. And what constituted a players shoulder.

Even with todays technology, how can this system identify from a 2D image, what is a players back and not his opposite arm (to the camera) ? Or how far out a players arse is compared to his shoulderblades ?

Would love to see the tests of this system, if only to ease my own mind.

It doesn’t identify anything from a single 2D image from a single camera. It doesn’t, in the sense that human perception would understand it, generate 2D images at all. It’s a 3D multi “camera” system. Like the goal line tech. We learnt to trust that pretty quick.

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[markthehorn]

Far too subjective and inconsistent.

The match going fans are left in the dark and no one knows what is going go happen .

On pitch officials too scared to overrule the VAR themselves.

Mind you I don’t think Atwell was biased last week - just a rubbish ref .