Time to separate red ball and white ball squads?

[The Rat]

In your opinion. I personally value our World Cup win more than our home ashes wins, for instance, under cook and Strauss. I think the 50 over world cups a bit higher prestige than the world T20, but still. Would you trade our 2019 World Cup win to have won last time down under?

they’re all irrelevant points like

in the public consciousness the ashes is absolutely huge

at20 win wont touch as many people

we saw that when we should have won 4 years ago and when colly won

Didn’t reach many people

the ashes just means more, rightly or wrongly

 

[Voice of fair play]

The news that players in the IPL are most likely to miss the NZ series too, raises the question for me.

You cant keep changing your team 4 or 5 times every match, that will catch up with you, and you won't win many matches.

This is not a unique situation going forward, despite vaccines etc, travelling overseas will take a while to fully get back to normal IMO, with new variants etc, so players can expect to be in bubbles when they play.

Also, the IPL is clearly now a priority for players, they aren't going to miss it (which I think is a disgrace in this year of all years), there is also another T20 world cup next year

They are also likely to rest players during the India series at home, before the world cup, this will happen next year too I'd imagine

If people like Buttler, Archer etc are going to miss potentially 4 or 5 test matches in a row, I'd rather they just stuck to white ball stuff and we fully reward our test match players so they aren't tempted to sway, like Foakes etc

England have managered the IPL well with their players, but this is the year its come to ahead, and the players have made their priority known. People will try spin it as "prepraration for the world cup", but its not, its money, and I guess you can't knock them for it

We need to do something IMO, because Root and the test team will be the one to suffer everytime, none of these multiformat players will ever choose a test match over an IPL deal, so we need to incentives the ones who dont get offers

In 2019 we saw two of the best games and best finishes you are likely to see in a lifetime within the space of two months! winning the World Cup and that never to be forgotten test match at Leeds.

And the centre of it all and the match winner was a player central to both red and white ball.

Of course we should not have entirely different squads for white and red ball cricket, as if we did one of them unforgettable moments would probably not have happened.

 

[The Rat]

In 2019 we saw two of the best games and best finishes you are likely to see in a lifetime within the space of two months! winning the World Cup and that never to be forgotten test match at Leeds.

And the centre of it all and the match winner was a player central to both red and white ball.

Of course we should not have entirely different squads for white and red ball cricket, as if we did one of them unforgettable moments would probably not have happened.

that’s a unique player

don’t think that fits with the other players

 

[Voice of fair play]

that’s a unique player

don’t think that fits with the other players

Guess that’s my point you want your unique players in both squads especially match winners, not pigeon holed to a certain squad.

Besides to me and I have always said this, the sign of a truly great player, especially batsman is their ability to adapt their game to whatever format and whatever situation.

Skills learned in the white ball game was instrumental in Stokes taking apart the Aussies on that final day at Leeds, and how many runs did Root score with reverse sweeps in test matches in Sri Lanka and India when he batted beautifully, skills you could argue learnt from white ball cricket.

I take your argument about putting red ball cricket first and agree what has happened here in this series wrong as well.

But big no and disagree totally about two entirely different squads for white and red ball cricket.

 

[TravellingMackem]

they’re all irrelevant points like

in the public consciousness the ashes is absolutely huge

at20 win wont touch as many people

we saw that when we should have won 4 years ago and when colly won

Didn’t reach many people

the ashes just means more, rightly or wrongly

Irrelevant because they contradict your point. Typical The Prat

 

[The Rat]

Irrelevant because they contradict your point. Typical The Prat

Eh?

the t20 World Cup is not bigger than the ashes in Australia for England fans

I you know that

don’t ruin the thread with abuse please

Guess that’s my point you want your unique players in both squads especially match winners, not pigeon holed to a certain squad.

Besides to me and I have always said this, the sign of a truly great player, especially batsman is their ability to adapt their game to whatever format and whatever situation.

Skills learned in the white ball game was instrumental in Stokes taking apart the Aussies on that final day at Leeds, and how many runs did Root score with reverse sweeps in test matches in Sri Lanka and India when he batted beautifully, skills you could argue learnt from white ball cricket.

I take your argument about putting red ball cricket first and agree what has happened here in this series wrong as well.

But big no and disagree totally about two entirely different squads for white and red ball cricket.

but you can have exceptions

if your supposed first choice wicket keeper is missing 5 games I’d suggest there’s argument for it

 

[TheRey]

Wasn't that bad when getting MVP at the IPL

This really. Then add on top of that the very challenging situation around travelling to other countries, bubbling, isolating before and after games, and it becomes impossible for any player to play it all. We have to make sacrifices in some places and prioritise somethings. There isn't a right answer really - what's more important a World Cup or an Ashes? Impossible to answer as they're both massive.

Ashes will always be more important than a WC IMO.

In your opinion. I personally value our World Cup win more than our home ashes wins, for instance, under cook and Strauss. I think the 50 over world cups a bit higher prestige than the world T20, but still. Would you trade our 2019 World Cup win to have won last time down under?

Yes.

 

[TravellingMackem]

Ashes will always be more important than a WC IMO.

Yes.

Fair enough. I wouldn’t.

Eh?

the t20 World Cup is not bigger than the ashes in Australia for England fans

I you know that

don’t ruin the thread with abuse please


but you can have exceptions

if your supposed first choice wicket keeper is missing 5 games I’d suggest there’s argument for it

How ironic given the way you conduct yourself on here

 

[The Rat]

Fair enough. I wouldn’t.

How ironic given the way you conduct yourself on here

can you just not like go away please and leave it to the adults? I’ll stick you on ignore, best for everyone. Cya later.

 

[TravellingMackem]

can you just not like go away please and leave it to the adults? I’ll stick you on ignore, best for everyone. Cya later.

This kid man

 

[TheRey]

Fair enough. I wouldn’t.

To me, Test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport. And the Ashes is the absolute pinnacle of Tests.

Don't get me wrong, I loved 2019. And what a way to win it! But if you offered me victory at Lord's in the Test where rain saved them, in exchange for New Zealand scoring one more run in the WC Final - I'd take that every day of the week.

As The Rat says, The Ashes is what grips people. More than any WC. I couldn't stand cricket until 2005. Any World Cup - in either format - would never have grabbed my attention like that series did

 

[TravellingMackem]

To me, Test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport. And the Ashes is the absolute pinnacle of Tests.

Don't get me wrong, I loved 2019. And what a way to win it! But if you offered me victory at Lord's in the Test where rain saved them, in exchange for New Zealand scoring one more run in the WC Final - I'd take that every day of the week.

As The Rat says, The Ashes is what grips people. More than any WC. I couldn't stand cricket until 2005. Any World Cup - in either format - would never have grabbed my attention like that series did

Test cricket is undoubtedly the hardest element of the sport and most entertaining for me, I agree on that. But the uniqueness of winning a single match over winning a drawn out series and the condensed nature of the drama of the World Cup just edges it for me. Helped by the fact the 2019 World Cup was to my daughter what the 2005 ashes was to you, so we’re probably both biased in that respect

 

[TheRey]

Test cricket is undoubtedly the hardest element of the sport and most entertaining for me, I agree on that. But the uniqueness of winning a single match over winning a drawn out series and the condensed nature of the drama of the World Cup just edges it for me. Helped by the fact the 2019 World Cup was to my daughter what the 2005 ashes was to you, so we’re probably both biased in that respect

That's fair enough mate. As I say 2019 was awesome, but I'll always view it as bittersweet as we couldn't regain our grip on that Urn!

It'd be boring if we all felt the same anyway.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Eh?

the t20 World Cup is not bigger than the ashes in Australia for England fans

I you know that

don’t ruin the thread with abuse please


but you can have exceptions

if your supposed first choice wicket keeper is missing 5 games I’d suggest there’s argument for it

Well yeah get you sentiment and balance to be had and they have it wrong at the moment, just think your suggestion would be going too far for the reasons I have mentioned.

 

[The Breen Machine]

Another vote for test cricket here. Agree also that the country as a whole takes a bigger interest in the Ashes than a white ball World Cup, just look at the demand for Ashes tickets.

 

[The Rat]

To me, Test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport. And the Ashes is the absolute pinnacle of Tests.

Don't get me wrong, I loved 2019. And what a way to win it! But if you offered me victory at Lord's in the Test where rain saved them, in exchange for New Zealand scoring one more run in the WC Final - I'd take that every day of the week.

As The Rat says, The Ashes is what grips people. More than any WC. I couldn't stand cricket until 2005. Any World Cup - in either format - would never have grabbed my attention like that series did

I think a World Cup at home it was vital we won and that will be long remembered

was more thinking t20 specifically

there’s no way that would register with people in the uk more than the ashes down under, no way

that last one with stokes over barely registered outside

Well yeah get you sentiment and balance to be had and they have it wrong at the moment, just think your suggestion would be going too far for the reasons I have mentioned.

Fair enough aye

It won’t happen

I think I was on about specific lads like Buttler

 

[Voice of fair play]

Another vote for test cricket here. Agree also that the country as a whole takes a bigger interest in the Ashes than a white ball World Cup, just look at the demand for Ashes tickets.

Yeah of course it does, but at the same time Ben Stokes should be playing for England in a white ball cricket final not pigeon holed to just one format.

Guess the trick is putting your priority into test cricket, but still have proven match winners available for white ball big games as well.

Tricky one

 

[TheRey]

I think a World Cup at home it was vital we won and that will be long remembered

was more thinking t20 specifically

there’s no way that would register with people in the uk more than the ashes down under, no way

that last one with stokes over barely registered outside

You're probably right on 2019, and I am in a minority that would prefer we won the Ashes instead.

But there's no way any WC, even 2023 in India, could ever capture the nation like a Test series.

It's impossible

 

[The Breen Machine]

Yeah of course it does, but at the same time Ben Stokes should be playing for England in a white ball cricket final not pigeon holed to just one format.

Guess the trick is putting your priority into test cricket, but still have proven match winners available for white ball big games as well.

Tricky one

Ideally there’s a solution that fits all, and I’m sure I speak for us all when I say that the separation of cricketers between red and white ball cricket is the last thing we want.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Ideally there’s a solution that fits all, and I’m sure I speak for us all when I say that the separation of cricketers between red and white ball cricket is the last thing we want.

Yeah absolutely there is simply two many talented and entertaining cricketers in this country, that I don’t want to see them match winners in just one format.